25 April 2023


 How barbarous, that the present Turkish State continues even now to behave aggressively towards those who continue to remember the Armenian Genocide.

I wonder how many of those who suffered in the recent earthquake were descended from those who murdered and raped and robbed the Armenian populations of the area.

God bless Pope Francis for having, early in his pontificate, spoken openly and frankly about one of the most terrible events of the last century; an event still unrepented. 

Yes; it wasn't only Armenians who suffered: I remember with much respect the horribly martyred hierarch S Chrysostom of Smyrna, the shepherd who did not desert his flock.

But Armenians are entitled, surely, to at least one day in 365. I wonder what the Starmers of this world will have to say about them today.


Paul said...

Fr Hunwicke,

I am sorry if this is off topic, but if you or any person who reads this fine blog is interested, I can recommend spending (or wasting?) 5 to 10 minutes checking out my favourite Catholic blog: Southern Orders Blog; there has been some very interesting discussion there recently on the long term significance of the perhaps 2 key figures (Abbe Alfred Loisy and Fr George Tyrrell SJ) during the Modernism Crisis in the Church, c. 1890-1910.

Also, with all the recent talk of what artificial intelligence can and can’t do - I am almost convinced at least one of the main contributors to the Southern Orders Blog (run by the charitable and generous and liberal, in it’s true positive sense, Fr Allen McDonald) must be ( 😉 ) an AI artificial intelligence created or constructed cyberspace being/unit programmed to slander just about anyone who has any attachment to the TLM and to vilify any poor soul who does not regard His Holiness Pope Francis as an oracle of God.

I have read this blog for some years but very very rarely contributed anything. I have learnt quite a lot both from this blog and the blog of Fr Z.

Fr Hunwicke, can I ask you how you judge the long term influence in the Church of Loisy and Tyrrell ?
Also, you could be helping me with an essay I’m working on if you, or any other erudite reader of your blog, could in one sentence indicate if I’m right, wrong or partly right when I claim that it is significant that the beliefs and views that saw both Loisy and Tyrrell excommunicated during the pontificate of St Pius X are now basically the same beliefs and views held by many Catholic priests and Anglican ministers in our era.

Thanks if you can.

Prayerful said...

The Greek Army insanely tried to conquer vast swathes of Anatolia rather than try protect Greek majority areas, which they could have done quite legitimately under the Treaty of Sevres. The Turks have a habit of reacting ferociously towards those who try to destroy their homeland, which Greece seemed to be in the process of doing. A sizeable Greek population did survive in Constantinople until the 50s, but an ancient Hellenic and Hellenised population had vanished from Anatolian Türkiye (which is pronounced almost exactly like 'Turkey'). Anyhow a notable measure of blame must rest with those Megali Idea Greeks whose fantasies resulted in disaster for Anatolian and Pontic Greeks.

Not really comparably, but close enough for Enver Pasha and the rest of the 'Three Pashas', certain small numbers of Armenians cooperated with Russia during their attempted incursion, which to the increasingly nationalistic Turks was proof all Armenians were a fifth column and the rest is savage history. Famously it is said to have inspired Hitler who supposedly asked who thinks of the Armenians now. And there very close links between Turkish and German ulta-nats after WW1 such that Enver Pasha sheltered in Germany before an Armenian shot him to the disgust of German nationalists.

Pope Francis seems to be incapable of adopting the correct tone over several matters, like a passive voiced mealy mouthed statement for Orthodox Easter, similar to earlier statements, which avoided any blame of the Putinist vertical for their bloody war in Ukraine. Türkiye will probably ignore him over the Armenian issue as do most over the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Francis doesn't really matter now.

Arthur Gallagher said...

There are Armenian people who are still alive who had close family members killed in the most barbaric ways, with heavy anti-Christian overtones, such as people being crucified. For many, they still cannot talk about it openly, and need the crimes against their families to be recognized. It seems that Armenians have great longevity, and my friend Carnig was in his 90's, and had a cousin Florence who lived to 104. One of their distant relatives lives near me,and she looks to be heading to a very great age. Naturally, this keeps the memories very much alive, and passed on to the younger generations.

The trouble with Armenia lies in two factors- religion and geography. Their Christianity has kept their identity intact, while their geographic location between the Orthodox and the Mohammedans had led to tragedy after tragedy. They have reunited with the Universal Church several times, but it is hard for it to really take, for strictly political reasons. Still, they are not of a schismatic disposition, to say the least. Unlike the Russians.

Turkey,too has been fated in matter of both religion and geography. I could give many examples from history such as the Russian vs. Turkish rivalry, which arises because of geography, i.e., the Turkish control over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles puts them in opposition to Russia in most things most of the time. It also confers great importance on Serbia, which winds up being allied with Russia- an indispensable pre-condition to the First World War.

I only mention this, because as long as NATO can have a forward position in Turkey to use against Russia, the United States will never make a really top-level recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

Bill Murphy said...

I guess that the Starmers of this world will say nothing. And there will be no publicly photographed kneeling. No votes in Armenians!

Paul said...

So Hitler was wrong!
Some people, at least, DO remember.

Mark Zorab said...

At Yerevan anyone who has been to the Holocaust museum and seen the graphic and shocking photos of the Christian Armenians suffering at the hands of Muslim Turks, can not but be convinced and moved with floods of tears, at the scale of this Genocide in the 20th century. The eternal flame of light which burns above the underground museum gives hope that Christ's light may forever shine on the Holy people of Armenia, which includes the enforced diaspora. It was the first country in the world to embrace Christianity as a nation. In those morbid but important rooms the evidence of 1.5 million dead should never be up for debate as being anything other than living proof of a true genocide. Armenians and Christians more widely are crying out (literally for Armenians and their wide offspring) for repentance of the murders of those men, women and children. Until that recognition by Turkey occurs the pain will never ease. However, the faith in Christ will forever endure. No European, including British, institution should rest until that repentance is forthcoming. Justice demands this as a clear and outward sign from Turkey and Turks generally that this is a real historical event, without the lame excuses of extenuating circumstances, and is the only way Turkey should receive integration and acceptance in the world. When and if that day comes, forgiveness and healing can, pray God, eventually come. Mark Zorab.

coradcorloquitur said...

I think the main reason the Armenian Holocaust is not denounced everywhere for the unspeakable horror that it was---with corresponding museums, even in countries that had nothing to do with the atrocities, to remind the world at every moment---is that the martyred Armenians were Christians, as are their descendants. That historical reality just does not fit the warped modern sensibilities and propaganda of our masters.