I obediently obeyed Fr Zed's command to look at the above website for accurate EF ORDO-style information. Mysteriously, the Mass for October 7 gives a commemoration for Pope S Mark, with the collect/secret/postcommunion in Latin from the Roman Missal as it was before Pius XII invented the Common for Sovereign Pontiffs. But the English translation alongside are versions of the Pius XII formulae.
Oh dear. How difficult all this popish liturgy is. Clergy joining Ordinariates will obviously need enormous amounts of instruction before we get the hang of it.
7 October 2010
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Father, I don't think this website has an imprimatur. I prefer to stick with actual books for the Divine Office.
I would suggest getting your hands on vol. 1-3 of the Antiphonale Monasticum from Solesmes. I know it is the monastic rite, but it does provide for a wonderfully traditional Lauds and Vespers (with chant!). And it is all officially approved by the competent authority.
Mm: though a regular user of Divinum Officium, from time to time I have have to leap to the paper copies because I'm not convinced that Mr Kiss has it right. There are a number of typos at Matins, too, that I keep trying to remember to contact him about.
But it's a brave effort, and I congratulate him. I'm not sure that I would have the energy to attempt something so diverse as the office in all its traditional forms.
I would have thought such 'electronic wire' form of Ordo fell under the same condemnations of Bl. Pius IX as fast-moving trains.
Spare a thought for poor old Ordo compilers like our distinguished blog host and yours truly - should we really be replaced by online wizardry? What happens if there is a power-cut to the server?
Oops, another typo.
Either make 'form' forms or 'Ordo' Ordines above - again the danger of modern typewriting.
By the way, Father, what do you think of the nova & vetera edition of the Breviarium Romanum? It seems to me a fine effort.
However, I can see the arguments for returning to the pre-1911 Psalter. And I can see the point of returning to the pre-Urban VIII hymns...
So, where do you stop and rest? I am glad that being a poor layman, I am under no obligation to say the complete divine office, and so can be content with a few prayers at morning and at night.
Indeed, what should we poor laity do? Just stick with the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary? and avoid all the difficulties of "popish liturgy"? But even here, I am told, the reforms of St. Pius X can be noticed, so can we really use the 2008 Baronius Press version? or should we try to get hold of an earlier one... It is all rather perplexing... Perhaps one should, after all accept the Liturgia Horarum, with all its faults?
Certainly, I am planning to say the office of Blessed John Henry Newman, according to the Liturgia Horarum, come Saturday. Oh! but I would like to say first Vespers according to the ancient tradition of the Church, but that's not really allowed, is it? Life truly is difficult ;-)
Don't buy the Baronius Press edition of the Little Office - it is littered with errors.
I celebrate only the Traditional Roman Mass and like most priests who do so, i make use of the Missals in my possession and in possesion of the parish church, none of which are of 1962. The Missals were all issued before Pius XII. Ahd so today I celebrated the Mass of OUr Lady of the Rosary, with commemorations of Pope Saint Mark and of the Martyrs SS. Sergius and Bacchus with companions. (In the last Breviary issued by John XXIII, the commemoration of Sergius and Bacchus has been left out.)
Yes the Divinum Officium on -line is a tremendous treasure, but it does occasionally have errors in spelling, in hymns and (seldom) in offices. The compiler could consult the Breviarium ROmanum of Piux V (reissued in photo-form by the Libreria Vaticana and sold by Pax books) for the correct original pre-Urban VIII hymn texts, but he seems not to know that. I still own a copy of the Officium Parvum BMV which i recited as a student before i was ordained subdeacon and had to begin to recite the Breviary. It was issued in the 1940s and does not contain any novelties. Everyithing is the same as in the BR of Pius V and in the MOnastic Breviary, as far as i have been able to compare them.
thank you for your advice, but it is too late. This is supposed to be the 2nd edition (2008), but I notice that the introduction claims that St. Benedict of Aniane was "a monastic reformer of the tenth century." Silly me, I thought he died in A.D. 821.
If the rest of the text is of the same quality, you may be right in your assessment. One strange feature is that the Latin text lacks accents to mark stress. This doesn't bother me unduly, since I feel fairly confident about where to place the stress, but it does strike me as unusual in a liturgical book.
Re:the Urban hymnody - does not the liber hymnarius restore many ancient versions of these hymns which may legitimately be inserted - thus Xmas has Christe Redemptor rather than Jesu Redemptor etc...
Unfortunately those hymns have had a 'touch up' by Lentini and are not quite the same as the original pre-Urban VIII edition.
If I were a devout layman, I would simply say Lauds and Vespers from a pre-1911 Breviary. Lay people do not have to satisfy an obligation to the office and so they do not have the risk, which clergy have, that if they diverge from strict legality they might not have fulfilled their obligation.
Albertus - in my copy of the breviary of Blessed John XXIII (the 1964 bilingual Collegeville edition) there is a commemoration of Saints Sergius and Bacchus and companions, but it has been transferred to the 8th of October from the 7th.
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