The BBC website has an interview about Anglicanorum Coetibus with a Mgr Andrew Faley. If this man's attitudes and views have been accurately reported and accurately represent those of his masters ...
I just read the article you are referring to, but I'm not sure what you find to be the significant points being made by Msgr. Faley. Some of his "attitudes and views" are evidently his personal opinion. Could you be more specific?
Reading the article as a RC, I find myself in agreement with the comments of "Christian" (who I believe is a reader of your blog) at his website. I chuckled at his comment "Thanks for being so optimistic" about the prospects of leasing property from the Church of England, in the face of Msgr. Faley's view that it was "out of the question".
I happen to agree with "Christian" that "The nature of the bishops’ conference is immaterial. The Holy See erects the personal ordinariate and appoints the ordinary — not the local episcopal conferences." I think that degree of "protection" is part of the generosity of the Pope's offer -- he will ensure fairness.
"Bishops' conference". Where is THAT in the Bible?
No surprises that the E&W hierarchy, having been briefly wrong-footed, are now trying to assert control of the process. So, according to Mgr Faley, we're looking at: • No married ordinands (other than converting clergy) • Ordinary likely to be appointed from existing RC hierarchy • No use of Roman rite • Sharing existing Catholic buildings (so it's going to be a 3.30pm Mass slot just so long as it doesn't clash with anything the "proper" Catholics want to do) • "What is meant by 'Anglican patrimony' will need to be very clearly stated and very clearly described" (well, I dare say, but by whom, and on what criteria?) • "… expected to co-operate with their local bishop" (fair enough as far as it goes, but what reality is concealed behind the anodyne expression "expected to co-operate"?)
If Mgr Faley is speaking with the authority of the Bishops' Conference, the question is to what extent they will in practice be determining the shape of things. If he is not speaking with their authority, then a public correction is needed urgently – otherwise this could have the effect of wrecking the Pope's entire initiative.
On the question of the supposedly "inalienable" buildings, Bishop Barnes has some pertinent observations on his blog. It would be a true act of dog-in-the-mangerism for the CofE to prevent the Ordinariate using (and indeed owning outright, as in the cases +Edwin cites) buildings which would otherwise be redundant. However much they dislike us, surely they wouldn't stoop that low … ???
"If Mgr Faley is speaking with the authority of the Bishops' Conference, the question is to what extent they will in practice be determining the shape of things."
Fr. William,
That's a question to ask Pope Benedict, NOT any bishops' conference. Remember now, this is the Catholic Church. The Pope has actual authority the world over; a Bishops' Conference has virtually none, and without the Pope's approval, actually none.
If this has substance surely the references to the 'nature of the present Bishops Conference' would suggest that Bishop Hopes, as a former Anglican priest, will be the Ordinary?
Mgr Faley seems to speculating, rather than giving an authoritative interpretation of Anglicanorum coetibus. He also appears to be a member of the team that has spent the last 40 years in "dialoguing" in ever decreasing circles with liberal Anglicanism: he probably represents the view of Ecclestone Square but does not speak for those who matter (in this case the CDF).
Mgr Faley is assistant general secretary of the Bishops Conference of England & Wales. He does not speak for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith who will have entire control of the implementation of the ordinariates. The views of the Bishops Conference will be considered, but they are not in control. Their proximate ad limina visit after Christmas will have four main agenda items- (i) The Papal State Visit; (ii) The Ordinariates; (iii) The introduction of the new English translation of the Roman Missal; (iv) Ongoing issues around child abuse, etc.
While I thank Mr. McDonough for reading The Anglo-Catholic, I must confess that I am a bit puzzled as to why he keeps referring to me as "Christian" in quotation marks. Is my name or religious affiliation in somehow in doubt?
Of course your name and religious affiliation are not in doubt! It is a matter of mistaken identity. There is a reader of Fr. H's blog with the avatar "Christian", and I mistakenly identified him with you when I saw your Christian name on your blog. I am not in the prime of my life, to tell the truth.
Unfortunately for those who have high hopes for Anglicanorum Coetibus, the harsh reality which awaits is likely to be accurately described by Mgr. Faley.
The question to be borne in mind is, "Who designed AC?" - the answer being the CDF, aka the Holy Office. It is not renowned for its tender feelings towards Anglicans, and it has given nothing away on this occasion.
The sensible option seems to be to join the local RC diocese directly, rather than a special Lodge for ex-Anglicans.
On Christian Campbell's Anglo-Catholic blog, there is reproduced a wonderful sermon from last week by Bishop Peter Elliott, Auxiliary Bishop of Melbourne, Australia, to a TAC parish there. After tracing a bit of the history of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception (IMO, a rather wonderful historical overview in and of itself), toward the end he says this:
"The Constitution [Anglicanorum coetibus] and the accompanying note from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith define and set out the structure of Anglican Use Ordinariates for those Anglicans who accept the whole Faith and seek full unity with the Catholic Church. Within the Roman Rite they will enjoy a certain autonomy and special privileges. At their November Meeting at the shrine of Blessed Mary Mc Killop in North Sydney, the Australian Catholic Bishops appointed me their Delegate for the project of setting up Ordinariates in Australia."
Bishop Elliott then goes on to say what the proper attitude of existing Catholics should be in all this: we are to be "welcoming, helpful and open".
If you continue to maintain your blog with the high qualities it now possesses, indeed you may come to be known by your first name throughout the Christian world!
Fr. H,
ReplyDeleteI just read the article you are referring to, but I'm not sure what you find to be the significant points being made by Msgr. Faley. Some of his "attitudes and views" are evidently his personal opinion. Could you be more specific?
Reading the article as a RC, I find myself in agreement with the comments of "Christian" (who I believe is a reader of your blog) at his website. I chuckled at his comment "Thanks for being so optimistic" about the prospects of leasing property from the Church of England, in the face of Msgr. Faley's view that it was "out of the question".
I happen to agree with "Christian" that "The nature of the bishops’ conference is immaterial. The Holy See erects the personal ordinariate and appoints the ordinary — not the local episcopal conferences." I think that degree of "protection" is part of the generosity of the Pope's offer -- he will ensure fairness.
"Bishops' conference". Where is THAT in the Bible?
No surprises that the E&W hierarchy, having been briefly wrong-footed, are now trying to assert control of the process. So, according to Mgr Faley, we're looking at:
ReplyDelete• No married ordinands (other than converting clergy)
• Ordinary likely to be appointed from existing RC hierarchy
• No use of Roman rite
• Sharing existing Catholic buildings (so it's going to be a 3.30pm Mass slot just so long as it doesn't clash with anything the "proper" Catholics want to do)
• "What is meant by 'Anglican patrimony' will need to be very clearly stated and very clearly described" (well, I dare say, but by whom, and on what criteria?)
• "… expected to co-operate with their local bishop" (fair enough as far as it goes, but what reality is concealed behind the anodyne expression "expected to co-operate"?)
If Mgr Faley is speaking with the authority of the Bishops' Conference, the question is to what extent they will in practice be determining the shape of things. If he is not speaking with their authority, then a public correction is needed urgently – otherwise this could have the effect of wrecking the Pope's entire initiative.
Or perhaps that's the whole point …
On the question of the supposedly "inalienable" buildings, Bishop Barnes has some pertinent observations on his blog. It would be a true act of dog-in-the-mangerism for the CofE to prevent the Ordinariate using (and indeed owning outright, as in the cases +Edwin cites) buildings which would otherwise be redundant. However much they dislike us, surely they wouldn't stoop that low … ???
ReplyDelete"If Mgr Faley is speaking with the authority of the Bishops' Conference, the question is to what extent they will in practice be determining the shape of things."
ReplyDeleteFr. William,
That's a question to ask Pope Benedict, NOT any bishops' conference. Remember now, this is the Catholic Church. The Pope has actual authority the world over; a Bishops' Conference has virtually none, and without the Pope's approval, actually none.
If this has substance surely the references to the 'nature of the present Bishops Conference' would suggest that Bishop Hopes, as a former Anglican priest, will be the Ordinary?
ReplyDeleteMaster Faley seems to know a great deal more about the ordinariates than the Pope.
ReplyDeleteMgr Faley seems to speculating, rather than giving an authoritative interpretation of Anglicanorum coetibus. He also appears to be a member of the team that has spent the last 40 years in "dialoguing" in ever decreasing circles with liberal Anglicanism: he probably represents the view of Ecclestone Square but does not speak for those who matter (in this case the CDF).
ReplyDeleteMgr Faley is assistant general secretary of the Bishops Conference of England & Wales. He does not speak for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith who will have entire control of the implementation of the ordinariates. The views of the Bishops Conference will be considered, but they are not in control. Their proximate ad limina visit after Christmas will have four main agenda items- (i) The Papal State Visit; (ii) The Ordinariates; (iii) The introduction of the new English translation of the Roman Missal; (iv) Ongoing issues around child abuse, etc.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhile I thank Mr. McDonough for reading The Anglo-Catholic, I must confess that I am a bit puzzled as to why he keeps referring to me as "Christian" in quotation marks. Is my name or religious affiliation in somehow in doubt?
ReplyDeleteChristian Campbell
The Anglo-Catholic
Dear Mr. Campbell,
ReplyDeleteOf course your name and religious affiliation are not in doubt! It is a matter of mistaken identity. There is a reader of Fr. H's blog with the avatar "Christian", and I mistakenly identified him with you when I saw your Christian name on your blog. I am not in the prime of my life, to tell the truth.
Mystery solved, and apologies to you, sir.
Mr. McDonough,
ReplyDeleteThere was no offense taken! It was just a little curious. I thought perhaps I had become so famous that I was now referred to by my first name!
Unfortunately for those who have high hopes for Anglicanorum Coetibus, the harsh reality which awaits is likely to be accurately described by Mgr. Faley.
ReplyDeleteThe question to be borne in mind is, "Who designed AC?" - the answer being the CDF, aka the Holy Office. It is not renowned for its tender feelings towards Anglicans, and it has given nothing away on this occasion.
The sensible option seems to be to join the local RC diocese directly, rather than a special Lodge for ex-Anglicans.
Fr. H,
ReplyDeleteOn Christian Campbell's Anglo-Catholic blog, there is reproduced a wonderful sermon from last week by Bishop Peter Elliott, Auxiliary Bishop of Melbourne, Australia, to a TAC parish there. After tracing a bit of the history of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception (IMO, a rather wonderful historical overview in and of itself), toward the end he says this:
"The Constitution [Anglicanorum coetibus] and the accompanying note from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith define and set out the structure of Anglican Use Ordinariates for those Anglicans who accept the whole Faith and seek full unity with the Catholic Church. Within the Roman Rite they will enjoy a certain autonomy and special privileges. At their November Meeting at the shrine of Blessed Mary Mc Killop in North Sydney, the Australian Catholic Bishops appointed me their Delegate for the project of setting up Ordinariates in Australia."
Bishop Elliott then goes on to say what the proper attitude of existing Catholics should be in all this: we are to be "welcoming, helpful and open".
Amen.
Mr. Campbell,
ReplyDeleteIf you continue to maintain your blog with the high qualities it now possesses, indeed you may come to be known by your first name throughout the Christian world!