Getting out my rosary in between Mass Number Two and Mass Number Three, it occurred to me: is it correct, on All Souls' Day, to say Requiem aeternam rather than Gloria Patri at the end of each decade?
I've always understood that since the Rosary is a non-liturgical devotion its traditional schema is followed, regardless of the day. However, being that it is a personal and often private devotion its form is maleable.
There certainly seem to be doctrinal problems when "… and rise in glory" is used as a response to "May the souls of the faithful, through the mercy of God, rest in peace." We believe in the resurrection of the body. I don't know what meaning, if any, can be given to the idea of the resurrection of the soul.
What would 'may he rest in peace' mean if it didn't mean 'may his soul rest in peace'? And if it means the same thing isn't 'and rise in glory' a mistake?
As a commenter above notes, the Rosary, being a personal, private, non-liturgical devotion, is quite malleable in its form; in Germany, for instance, it is customary to refer within the Hail Mary to the mystery being meditated (eg, "blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus, Who rose from the dead").
"'... And rise in glory' appears to be an Anglican addition. We never use it in the Catholic Church."
Deo gratias!
"And rise in glory" reminds me of a pro-basketball radio announcer who upon a made hoop always exclaimed, "He rises and scores!" I think it was one of the Albert brothers who, if you will recall, had issues with dressing in drag which brings up the issue of double-entendre...
The concern that the Rosary be recited "properly" is probably based in concern for getting the indulgences attached to its recitation. The new Enchiridion still provides for indulgences for the Rosary so I suppose the concern is still well founded.
The old strict definition of the Rosary only included the ten Aves separated by the Paters. Even though the custom now includes the Gloria the new Enchiridion still defines the Rosary the old way. Consequently, I wouldn't think that swapping out the Requiem for the Gloria would be a problem. That's certainly the way we used to pray it for the dead an eon ago when I was a boy.
As "supporting evidence" for John's view, I can say that during the Paschal Triduum I (and some others) substitute for the Glorias the Antiphon which can be found in the Liturgy of the Hours, in place of the Responsorial at Lauds and Vespers:
Holy Thursday: Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem.
Good Friday: Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem, mortem autem crucis.
Holy Saturday: Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem, mortem autem crucis. Propter quod et Deus exaltavit illum, et dedit illi nomen, quod est super omne nomen.
Michael - this is exactly what I first thought about when reading this post. The Rosary, though extra-liturgical, is by no means completely removed from the liturgical action of the day. In the revised order of mysteries, for instance, the glorious mysteries are normally said on the Sunday, thus linking it to the day of Resurrection. On Thursday the Luminous mysteries are said - which feature, for instance, the institution of the Eucharist (appropriate because Thursday is both the day of the Institution and also Corpus Christi). Friday the sorrowful mysteries are said - the liturgical connection is to obvious for me to explain. Saturday, being traditionally devoted to BVM, appropriately the Joyful mysteries are said.
Also it is customary in many places to focus on particular mysteries during particular seasons - for instance, glorious in Easter and joyful in Christmas. There are also different collects that are sometimes used at the end of the Rosary which are taken from the Marian antiphons. At the end of the Rosary one can also substitute the Salve with the Marian antiphon of the season (though this is optional except in Easter).
I've always understood that since the Rosary is a non-liturgical devotion its traditional schema is followed, regardless of the day. However, being that it is a personal and often private devotion its form is maleable.
ReplyDeleteCould I ask a different but connected 'All Souls' question?
ReplyDeleteI was brought up to understand the response to 'May they rest in peace' was 'Amen'. Why do we now hear 'and rise in glory'?
Are there any doctrinal implications?
There certainly seem to be doctrinal problems when "… and rise in glory" is used as a response to "May the souls of the faithful, through the mercy of God, rest in peace." We believe in the resurrection of the body. I don't know what meaning, if any, can be given to the idea of the resurrection of the soul.
ReplyDeleteWhat would 'may he rest in peace' mean if it didn't mean 'may his soul rest in peace'? And if it means the same thing isn't 'and rise in glory' a mistake?
ReplyDelete'... And rise in glory' appears to be an Anglican addition. We never use it in the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteAs a commenter above notes, the Rosary, being a personal, private, non-liturgical devotion, is quite malleable in its form; in Germany, for instance, it is customary to refer within the Hail Mary to the mystery being meditated (eg, "blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus, Who rose from the dead").
ReplyDelete"'... And rise in glory' appears to be an Anglican addition. We never use it in the Catholic Church."
ReplyDeleteDeo gratias!
"And rise in glory" reminds me of a pro-basketball radio announcer who upon a made hoop always exclaimed, "He rises and scores!" I think it was one of the Albert brothers who, if you will recall, had issues with dressing in drag which brings up the issue of double-entendre...
“Amen” gits ‘er done.
ARIG is a recent (last 10-20 years) solecism that seems to originate in middle-of-the-road Anglicanism.
ReplyDeleteOne might speculate about the liturgical ignorance and the psychological and doctrinal hang-ups that lie behind it, but to little purpose.
Sadly ARIG is highly infectious and is now used by many People Who Should Know Better.
Be warned and resist!
Since the recitation of the Rosary is not a liturgical devotion, I would say that it makes no difference at all.
ReplyDeleteThe concern that the Rosary be recited "properly" is probably based in concern for getting the indulgences attached to its recitation. The new Enchiridion still provides for indulgences for the Rosary so I suppose the concern is still well founded.
ReplyDeleteThe old strict definition of the Rosary only included the ten Aves separated by the Paters. Even though the custom now includes the Gloria the new Enchiridion still defines the Rosary the old way. Consequently, I wouldn't think that swapping out the Requiem for the Gloria would be a problem. That's certainly the way we used to pray it for the dead an eon ago when I was a boy.
Cheers,
-John-
As "supporting evidence" for John's view, I can say that during the Paschal Triduum I (and some others) substitute for the Glorias the Antiphon which can be found in the Liturgy of the Hours, in place of the Responsorial at Lauds and Vespers:
ReplyDeleteHoly Thursday:
Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem.
Good Friday:
Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem, mortem autem crucis.
Holy Saturday:
Christus factus est pro nobis oboediens usque ad mortem, mortem autem crucis. Propter quod et Deus exaltavit illum, et dedit illi nomen, quod est super omne nomen.
Michael - this is exactly what I first thought about when reading this post. The Rosary, though extra-liturgical, is by no means completely removed from the liturgical action of the day. In the revised order of mysteries, for instance, the glorious mysteries are normally said on the Sunday, thus linking it to the day of Resurrection. On Thursday the Luminous mysteries are said - which feature, for instance, the institution of the Eucharist (appropriate because Thursday is both the day of the Institution and also Corpus Christi). Friday the sorrowful mysteries are said - the liturgical connection is to obvious for me to explain. Saturday, being traditionally devoted to BVM, appropriately the Joyful mysteries are said.
ReplyDeleteAlso it is customary in many places to focus on particular mysteries during particular seasons - for instance, glorious in Easter and joyful in Christmas. There are also different collects that are sometimes used at the end of the Rosary which are taken from the Marian antiphons. At the end of the Rosary one can also substitute the Salve with the Marian antiphon of the season (though this is optional except in Easter).
This all seems rather liturgical to me!