tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post8412548632276141991..comments2024-03-29T09:39:50.604+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: VideosFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4523652195129009822010-01-19T13:45:13.766+00:002010-01-19T13:45:13.766+00:00This red-blooded American agrees that many U. S. c...This red-blooded American agrees that many U. S. churches venerate the flag a bit too much. <br /><br />Praying for the nation is enough patriotism in worship methinks.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059920222709764278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55190659677114095712010-01-19T13:44:13.848+00:002010-01-19T13:44:13.848+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059920222709764278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45017960511882481522010-01-19T13:40:02.157+00:002010-01-19T13:40:02.157+00:00Adalbert may be correct, but his position is like ...Adalbert may be correct, but his position is like that of one who argues that "Unionists" should embrace the Irish tricolour because of its calculated inclusion of Orange.Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-71236097778643823742010-01-19T10:00:47.279+00:002010-01-19T10:00:47.279+00:00And by the way, you are being fooled by the Frater...And by the way, you are being fooled by the Fraternité Saint-Pie X ignorants : the drapeau tricolore is not a revolutionary emblem... The white stands for the king, the blue and red for the coat of arm of the city of Paris. These colors were used in early times in France (see the colors of french madones). It became controversial in 1871 when Henri "V" (grand-son of Charles X, ADALBERThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00862048624863708497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-77867413110755288302010-01-19T09:58:03.684+00:002010-01-19T09:58:03.684+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.ADALBERThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00862048624863708497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-26657544831313991822010-01-19T01:21:52.065+00:002010-01-19T01:21:52.065+00:00I love Mother Angelica. Having grown up watching E...I love Mother Angelica. Having grown up watching EWTN, it's so distressing to see her as she is now. It's like when I see my grandmother after a couple of years. Of course I know that people age but I suppose I don't really expect it to happen to those I hold dear.Bbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10989307876421460920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-82942551596170211092010-01-18T19:11:19.700+00:002010-01-18T19:11:19.700+00:00No, you've mistaken me:
"Joshua: you mus...No, you've mistaken me:<br /><br />"Joshua: you must not have ever been to the US, right? The “innocent heartfelt devotion” you superciliously decry"<br /><br />- I don't at all decry it (it was indeed sincere on the part of those Americans, and commendable piety on their part); I just say that Australians find it astonishing and would not behave likewise. That's why I Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70239991687235594842010-01-18T18:19:35.958+00:002010-01-18T18:19:35.958+00:00GOR, I think Sir Watkin was referring to the Jacob...GOR, I think Sir Watkin was referring to the Jacobite claimant, Francis II. ;-)<br /><br />Ian+, Thanks for the warning. I'll remember to keep my mouth shut on the point when I next visit "the land of the free".Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12813595031543071453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46913282730591030432010-01-18T18:14:11.528+00:002010-01-18T18:14:11.528+00:00Tut,tut - Sir Watkin. I’m not that old!
When I li...Tut,tut - Sir Watkin. I’m not <i>that</i> old!<br /><br />When I lived there it was already Elizabeth II, <i>feliciter regnans</i>.GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-2999409301403787212010-01-18T18:08:04.534+00:002010-01-18T18:08:04.534+00:00In the low church parishes where I was dragged as ...In the low church parishes where I was dragged as a boy down South, the vicars' idea of a festal procession (e.g. in the Octave of July 4th, Episcopal Visitation, Christmas and Easter) acolytes carried both the PECUSA (as it was then) and national flags. <br /><br />Warning, Christian: If you mess with their flag, you'll be branded an "unAmerican foreigner" (Ethel Merman to St Michael's Episcopal Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622056104708014205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75755378407991878782010-01-18T15:52:52.141+00:002010-01-18T15:52:52.141+00:00American Catholics often put flags in their sanctu...American Catholics often put flags in their sanctuaries because they're really American Protestants, or because they want to look more like Protestants to fit in. It is rare to find a Baptist or Methodist church without such a flag, especially in the South. <br /><br />It's not <i>solely</i> an American problem. When I was living in Hungary I went a few times to the Latin mass (novus samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18046817618324786021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75451302510352100942010-01-18T15:46:24.320+00:002010-01-18T15:46:24.320+00:00The closest approximation might have been a heartf...<i>The closest approximation might have been a heartfelt rendering of “God Save The Queen”.</i><br /><br />"God save the King!" if you please, Sir!Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-18335556655777536932010-01-18T14:55:07.129+00:002010-01-18T14:55:07.129+00:00While Mr. McDonough is correct in the origin of th...While Mr. McDonough is correct in the origin of the flags' presence in U.S. Catholic sanctuaries, however, this presence is discouraged. From the U.S. Bishop's site:<br /> "The Bishops' Committee on the Liturgy has in the past encouraged pastors not to place the flag within the sanctuary itself, in order to reserve that space for the altar, the ambo, the presidential chair and Steve Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021781365974293126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-66677818016385033242010-01-18T14:39:03.263+00:002010-01-18T14:39:03.263+00:00Accidentally deleted: ". The flag that flies ...Accidentally deleted: ". The flag that flies from"Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-11427412380309359662010-01-18T14:37:38.222+00:002010-01-18T14:37:38.222+00:00The hymn "God save the Queen" is sung in...The hymn "God save the Queen" is sung in English churches on national occasions. (Parishes using hymnals other than Ancient & Modern can print sticky labels to supply the missing, practical verse.) As to flags, we are fortunate to have no such conflictour church towers is that of the patron saint of the nation and also the flag of England.Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-65550949168619841612010-01-18T13:47:01.933+00:002010-01-18T13:47:01.933+00:00I would reiterate Michael’s note that the flag in ...I would reiterate Michael’s note that the flag in church (along with the Papal flag) was probably instituted to assure the non-believers that Catholics could be as patriotic as the WASPs who still ran the country back then. Catholics in public life were seen as a threat that the US would inevitably be brought under the domination of Rome. As late as the 1960 presidential election when Catholic GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-16150678349918463782010-01-18T13:46:32.875+00:002010-01-18T13:46:32.875+00:00I think it ironic that I should see such criticism...I think it ironic that I should see such criticism of displays of a national flag in Church on an *Anglican* blog. My experience of Anglican churches is that they, more often than not, have a few national symbols. This is not even to mention the endless regimental banners one sees in many broad-church rural parishes.<br /><br />Personally, I would order all national flags to be removed from the Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12813595031543071453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33646508314467602332010-01-18T13:15:26.931+00:002010-01-18T13:15:26.931+00:00Joshua,
I take it the NAC is "North American...Joshua,<br /><br />I take it the NAC is "North American College"?<br /><br />Yeah, that would probably curl my toes too. Some Americans think of singing that hymn as a prayer for America, rather than a display of chauvinism. I believe it is a sincere, benign attitude; but I understand how others can be suspicious of it.<br /><br />Not a few Americans meet and get acquainted with "Michael McDonoughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17384055883425252489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60966301471856790832010-01-18T12:09:29.761+00:002010-01-18T12:09:29.761+00:00Thanks for your clarification - I can get a little...Thanks for your clarification - I can get a little riled up sometimes. As I noted when at dinner at the N.A.C. the other day, there are significant cultural differences between Australians and citizens of the U.S.A.: the American seminarians and clergy rose as one to sing "God bless America", with evident innocent heartfelt devotion, whereas I could never imagine behaving in such a Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-66254576232095250352010-01-18T11:53:31.444+00:002010-01-18T11:53:31.444+00:00Fr. H,
There are a couple of factual mis-assumpti...Fr. H,<br /><br />There are a couple of factual mis-assumptions in your post, and Johua's riposte.<br /><br />(1) Arkansas, not Alabama, is "Clintonland".<br /><br />(2) Mother Angelica severed her order's control of EWTN a few years back (using a tactic of the "catholic" universities to hoist the USCCB on its own petard when Maphoney (sp?), Archbishop of Los Angeles, Michael McDonoughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17384055883425252489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-17096068475959826912010-01-18T11:42:44.923+00:002010-01-18T11:42:44.923+00:00On second thoughts, whose coat of arms is that on ...On second thoughts, whose coat of arms is that on the north wall of St Thomas the Martyr?<br /><br />;-)Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-86457744250858678092010-01-18T10:44:24.449+00:002010-01-18T10:44:24.449+00:00Yes, it does rather stick in one's craw to see...Yes, it does rather stick in one's craw to see this: the cult of a certain nation, its symbols and apparent near-godlike indefectability in its votaries' eyes (sed contra, need I mention Abu Ghraib?) rather reminds one of Bossuet's upsetting remark that in France of his day, one worshipped God under the triple aspect of the King, Jesus Christ, and the Church (in that order).Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.com