tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post7657304987773843441..comments2024-03-29T09:39:50.604+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: FILIOQUEFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23267748521217014172017-03-22T18:16:52.311+00:002017-03-22T18:16:52.311+00:00Chris, as you know, I'm all too familiar with ...Chris, as you know, I'm all too familiar with Orthodox claims to ecclesiological exclusivity and the very different ways in which different WRO "philosophies" seek to incarnate this in Western liturgical praxis.<br /><br />The Orthodox can, and will, do whatever they like, according to their own self-understanding and their estimation of Latin aberrancy.<br /><br />Something tells D. Benedict Andersen OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14666112025416568912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-83476674094389794862017-03-22T15:45:43.901+00:002017-03-22T15:45:43.901+00:00Dom Benedict,
It is another thing entirely to tak...Dom Benedict,<br /><br /><i>It is another thing entirely to take a composition by a fervent filioquist and make it say the exact opposite of his intention. The WRO version of the Quicumque vult also subverts the traditional Latin pneumatology.</i><br /><br />It's certainly not the first time (or the last) that a Christian group has altered a text (which they otherwise rightly esteem) for Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-36993003486752468242017-03-22T07:36:56.012+00:002017-03-22T07:36:56.012+00:00"Procedere, on the other hand, is a broader t..."Procedere, on the other hand, is a broader term. As well as sharing the meaning of ekporeuesthai, it also encompasses the Sending (proienai), wthin time, of the Spirit by the Son. And it includes the possibility of asserting that the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son.When the Western Church was battling against Arianism, it seemed important to safeguard the full divinity of Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11397970719818779385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-44615309943065526682017-03-21T14:43:14.194+00:002017-03-21T14:43:14.194+00:00Yup.
John Lamb has seen the little problem in Fath...Yup.<br />John Lamb has seen the little problem in Father Hunwicke's otherwise timely meditations:<br /><br />"To say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son in time, but not ab initio, from eternity - would be contrary to the Catholic faith."<br />The Son is the Author, Source, Cause, and Principle of the Holy Spirit together with the Father: from all eternity. <br />Not, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45963478007038796862017-03-21T00:06:17.263+00:002017-03-21T00:06:17.263+00:00(Oh dear, Father H. is so intent on wrecking my hu...(Oh dear, Father H. is so intent on wrecking my humility this Lent!!!)<br /><br />The official Latin text in the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate in the USA is:<br /><br />Genitori, Genitoque<br />Laus et iubilatio,<br />Salus, honor, virtus quoque<br />Sit et benedictio:<br />Procedenti ab <b>illoque</b><br />Compar sit laudatio. <br /> <br />(From the <i>Orthodox Ritual</i>, St Luke's D. Benedict Andersen OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14666112025416568912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-18715143709539164402017-03-20T21:10:42.054+00:002017-03-20T21:10:42.054+00:00"The Latin West is as entitled to the integri..."The Latin West is as entitled to the integrity of its own Patrimony as is the Byzantine East."<br /><br />Well, no, because the patrimony of West and East alike includes the third and eighth Ecumenical Councils. No matter what bishops of Rome might have said later. Deacon Nicholashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808015295973601427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-62146259710358511042017-03-20T17:26:03.932+00:002017-03-20T17:26:03.932+00:00I forgot the Beatific Vision properly explains the...I forgot the Beatific Vision properly explains the to and froing of the Holy Ghost the Divine Eternal Spirit. Thre is a very good description written by the Benedictine Priest Fr or Dom Louismet SauvignonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-10267082995340517422017-03-20T17:22:31.807+00:002017-03-20T17:22:31.807+00:00I have an orthodox Archbishop lives down the road,...I have an orthodox Archbishop lives down the road, His priests are very hot on the early English church being orthodox, They completely and utterly deny the valid of the Two English Synods of Bishops that say the English Church at that time answered to Rome by their own acclamation. The English Bishops that is. They say it was not done by orthodox bishops.. I laughed and ask them when did the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3750140535608162432017-03-20T14:11:21.824+00:002017-03-20T14:11:21.824+00:00Thank you, Father. I, too, (deemed - with not muc...Thank you, Father. I, too, (deemed - with not much justification - to be a died-in-the-wool Tridentinist) would lose no sleep if a successor of St Peter was to eliminate 'filioque' from the Latin text of the Creed. However, someone would have to adjust the chants to accommodate this. That, in itself, would be an interesting consideration.Monicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08205355672117624212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31596338444625617042017-03-20T13:54:38.417+00:002017-03-20T13:54:38.417+00:00On the filioque, if one desires to get deeply into...On the filioque, if one desires to get deeply into it, one will want to read Prof. A.E Siecienski's book on the subject. Here is a link to Prof. Adam DeVille's interview with him. http://easternchristianbooks.blogspot.com/2011/06/authorial-interview-e-siecienski-on.htmlWoodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08910654300435533408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45451008701813999892017-03-20T13:36:49.586+00:002017-03-20T13:36:49.586+00:00Dear Father, I cannot believe how timely your post...Dear Father, I cannot believe how timely your post is. I have been on the Aegean island of Chios for the past few weeks. With my schoolboy ancient Greek, I have been able to follow most of the Ordinary of the Mass in the Greek vernacular. However, it was only last week that I spotted that the Filioque was missing from the Creed. Now I know why. Thank you Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02823985751616686556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-9368284085274719912017-03-20T13:15:44.496+00:002017-03-20T13:15:44.496+00:00Prior to the schism the so-called Orthhodox orthod...Prior to the schism the so-called Orthhodox orthodox believed as we did that there is a double procession of the Holy Ghost from The Father and Son and it seems to ABS there is no need for us to ditch Tradition when it comes to that doctrine but that is what we Catholics are constantly doing, ditching this and that to seek the approval of those who reject us.<br /><br />Ecumenism is the universalMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23580555546887732302017-03-20T11:29:05.313+00:002017-03-20T11:29:05.313+00:00I believe it was the Council of Florence that defi...I believe it was the Council of Florence that defined infallibly that the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Son together with the Father as one principle.<br />St. Thomas says that the Son is the Author, Source, Cause, and Principle of the Holy Spirit (together with the Father).<br /><br />To say that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son in time, but not ab initio, from eternity - would beJackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858873453982708283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-72580459584684234792017-03-20T11:28:00.474+00:002017-03-20T11:28:00.474+00:00The argument from that paper struck me like a hamm...The argument from that paper struck me like a hammer when I first heard it: so elegant, so historically explanatory, and so hopeful for a resolution.<br /><br />I've often argued with some fiercely Protestant Anglo-Saxon on some controverted point of NT Greek: "Yes but if your interpretation of Greek is correct, then why do the Greeks not agree with it? You learned Greek from a book. Claudio Salvuccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08831694822879009083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30773160033405909462017-03-20T10:27:43.717+00:002017-03-20T10:27:43.717+00:00Thank you very much for this, Father. I am curren...Thank you very much for this, Father. I am currently on the Aegean island of Chios, and have been going to Mass at the Catholic church, where the Mass is celebrated in modern Greek. I was a very poor student of ancient Greek at school over thirty years ago, and whilst I have been able to follow most of the text of the Ordinary of the Mass, it was only last week that I noticed that the Filioque Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02823985751616686556noreply@blogger.com