tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post7352918991843551159..comments2024-03-27T17:29:51.954+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Mixed News endsFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39520680421647727412010-09-02T13:04:11.417+01:002010-09-02T13:04:11.417+01:00Ah, but to whom is "Benedictus qui venit"...Ah, but to whom is "Benedictus qui venit" addressed?<br /><br />And if it comes to that, the original "Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth" (Isaiah ch.6) was sung by cherubim who were crying.... one to another.<br /><br />Given that, I don't have a problem (not that I ever did) with "Christ has died....", but to those of you who do, do you also have aStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09367545445575135099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-59181535071586187532010-08-25T16:43:46.315+01:002010-08-25T16:43:46.315+01:00How about this for an acclamation: "Benedictu...How about this for an acclamation: "Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini; hosanna in excelsis." It's often used at that point in sung Tridentine masses, and has a good pedigree ...davidforsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603145004197815827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-14702631465836960322010-08-25T14:20:33.288+01:002010-08-25T14:20:33.288+01:00The 'Christ has died...' acclamation does ...The 'Christ has died...' acclamation does not appear in the Latin edition and IMHO is inferior to the others.<br /><br />Such acclamations are scattered fairly freely through older liturgies, e.g. picking up my copy of Hammond, he gives, in Latin, the Ethiopic Liturgy. After the Institution "<i>Populus: Mortem tuam annuntiamus, Domine, et resurrectionem tuam sanctam credimus, Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-82483413904213401022010-08-25T04:02:45.916+01:002010-08-25T04:02:45.916+01:00" ''Donec venias'' comes to m..." ''Donec venias'' comes to mind (Until He comes)."<br /><br />Doesn't that mean "until you come"?<br /><br />(not ashamed to be corrected if I'm wrong)rick allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07612435616018593956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37605216090380523142010-08-24T22:49:26.151+01:002010-08-24T22:49:26.151+01:00Sorry for the typo - not 'mysterium diei' ...Sorry for the typo - not 'mysterium diei' but 'mysterium fidei'. We nearly had the mystery of God there...<br /><br />+ AndrewUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02920258944978279395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41757278910081033352010-08-24T22:46:40.682+01:002010-08-24T22:46:40.682+01:00Salvator mundi is well worth including but the pro...Salvator mundi is well worth including but the problem with the acclamation, I have always thought, is that, in ICEL 1970, the priest breaks off from addressing the Father to addressing the congregation again - 'let us proclaim'. When I was a creative liturgist - thinking then that a little improvisation was licit - I used to allocate that phrase to the deacon, one of whose jobs it mightUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02920258944978279395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-21871583223818361862010-08-24T18:33:13.744+01:002010-08-24T18:33:13.744+01:00Well, up to a point, Pastor in Valle and Figulus. ...Well, up to a point, Pastor in Valle and Figulus. The whole of the rest of the Eucharistic Prayer refers to our Lord in the third person, so "Christ has died …" is no exception in that regard. But that, of course, is because the EuPr is addressed to the Father. Which leads us to the real problem with "Christ has died …": to whom is it addressed? Are we to suppose that it too Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67253482509606463132010-08-24T17:14:26.111+01:002010-08-24T17:14:26.111+01:00Albertus,
How does "Salvator mundi, salva n...Albertus,<br /><br />How does "Salvator mundi, salva nos, qui per crucem et resurrectionem liberasti nos" (IIRC)deny the real presences?<br /><br />For that matter, "donec venias" is paraphrasing St Paul, who certainly cannot be construed as denying the real presence.<br /><br />I am, of course, glad to be rid of "Christ has died". It is rude, and worse yet, Figulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13549064050271896212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-65014409149059594452010-08-24T15:13:45.879+01:002010-08-24T15:13:45.879+01:00"... for a variety of reasons which I will pr..."... for a variety of reasons which I will probably delete from the thread if readers start amusing themselves too much with the topic"<br /><br />Expressed with your characteristic pedagogical drollness and restraint, Father.<br /><br />I am finding it really difficult not to ROFL, even though I'm in an office.<br /><br />Roll on the Ordinariate!AndrewWShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00196842185913965725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-18800789174738949332010-08-24T13:36:06.066+01:002010-08-24T13:36:06.066+01:00I have since my ordination in 1977 always celebrat...I have since my ordination in 1977 always celebrated the Traditional Latin Mass, so the problem of the acclamations does not touch me directly. Equally as bad, it seems to me, are all the other Novus Ordo Post-consecratory acclamations, even the Latin originals. They all insist on denying the Lord's sacramental presence. ''Donec venias'' comes to mind (Until He comes). I have Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51283715903187495052010-08-24T13:13:21.348+01:002010-08-24T13:13:21.348+01:00re: Christ has died.
My principal (and indeed prin...re: Christ has died.<br />My principal (and indeed principle) objection is that it addresses our Lord as if he were not present. So I don't use it, even in the translation now on death row.Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-78906190498634937052010-08-24T11:47:13.192+01:002010-08-24T11:47:13.192+01:00Well, I can see that many things about the last mi...Well, I can see that many things about the last minute changes are annoying but, on the plus side one or two of the changes seem to be improvements. I am not saying they are better translations, but it is nice to see the sacrificial element made more explicit ("for whom we offer this sacrifice").Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12813595031543071453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-73545169581524768112010-08-24T11:29:27.832+01:002010-08-24T11:29:27.832+01:00"Christ has died ... has disappeared."
..."Christ has died ... has disappeared."<br /><br />Alleluia! The time has come, Father. Just tell your folks: "You can't blame me for this one" and send those goofy affirmations into outer darkness. The Tridentine Mass has such through-composed dignity, no herky-jerky starts and stops (I'll bet the Kentish-ites like that herky-jerky stuff), that these silly Pete SeegerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com