tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post7246565969446840863..comments2024-03-28T14:19:53.973+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Cassiciacum? (2)Fr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-920695126801832412019-03-25T14:46:31.872+00:002019-03-25T14:46:31.872+00:00It is my understanding that Pope St. Leo II refuse...It is my understanding that Pope St. Leo II refused to confirm the decree condemning Honorius for heresy of the Sixth Ecumenical Council. Does not that make that particular decree null?Duanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17168840276706621080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32970870944701165912019-03-17T01:46:10.704+00:002019-03-17T01:46:10.704+00:00One could reasonably think that the Catholic relig...One could reasonably think that the Catholic religion is ridiculous because it can’t even figure out what it believes.thomas tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241537308195762967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84988506268462243942019-03-16T14:00:34.694+00:002019-03-16T14:00:34.694+00:00"Even in the erudite Dominican study of Melch..."Even in the erudite Dominican study of Melchior Cano, De locis theologicis, ed. J. Plans (Madrid: 2006), bk. 6, the author was forced to resort to denying that John XXII taught magisterially, rather only as “a matter of preparatory study.” In the case of Pope Honorius I, Cano makes a distinction between the pope as “a private heretic” and one who “confirms the brethren.” Prior to Vatican I,Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04888192407349258556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-5040537970595307612019-03-13T16:31:18.796+00:002019-03-13T16:31:18.796+00:00@TonyV: then what's the frigging point?@TonyV: then what's the frigging point?thomas tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241537308195762967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-28772941429767084082019-03-13T15:25:28.876+00:002019-03-13T15:25:28.876+00:00Justina, because the Church has declared Bergoglio...Justina, because the Church has declared Bergoglio to be pope. <br /><br />Seems to me if we were to call into question any papal election where various groups got together to lobby for a particular candidate, one would have to invalidate many of the papal elections of the last 1000 years. The actions of the St. Gallen Mafia can't have been any worse than that of the Borgias. John Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352405449391514146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31847370886972189392019-03-13T13:13:46.633+00:002019-03-13T13:13:46.633+00:00Dear Justina. It is not private judgment to ackno...Dear Justina. It is not private judgment to acknowledge that Pope Francis is Pope but Catholic Tradition. It is private judgment to claim that the Church failed, that the gates of Hell have prevailed, that The Church is invisible, and that Francis is not Pope for those are the consequences of claiming that Bishop Emeritus Ratzinger is Pope.<br /><br /><br />ABS could summarise the Tradition Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-73790377894170249692019-03-13T09:50:55.103+00:002019-03-13T09:50:55.103+00:00On my wall is a copy of a page from a Roman Brevia...On my wall is a copy of a page from a Roman Breviary printed in Venice in 1500 (British Library Cat. No. IB24625). In the mattins lessons appointed for the feast of St. Leo II Honorius is in the same list as the others condemned for the same heresy: Cyrus, Sergius, <b>Honorius</b>, Pyrrus, Paul, Peter, Macarios and Stephen.<br /><br />Anyone interested in the subject would do better consulting Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32398052643049729832019-03-13T08:38:14.701+00:002019-03-13T08:38:14.701+00:00Perhaps when a pope teaches heresy, he stops being...Perhaps when a pope teaches heresy, he stops being pope just for that moment, then quickly become pope again a few minutes later. Kind of like a mini Roman holiday.Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-9511238017324144692019-03-13T07:12:56.715+00:002019-03-13T07:12:56.715+00:001. Why is it "private judgment" to asser...1. Why is it "private judgment" to assert that Ratzinger is still the pope, but not to assert that Bergoglio is? Your argument assumes what it sets out to prove.<br /><br />2. No one ever said Honorius wasn't the pope in the first place. Bergoglio would have to be, for any of this to apply.<br /><br />Canon law, not any of us (ABS included) is conclusive in this regard, and must Justinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09465934867471657275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51287321757148186462019-03-13T01:39:29.693+00:002019-03-13T01:39:29.693+00:00Catholic dogma asserts that the pope
CAN NOT
IMPOS...Catholic dogma asserts that the pope<br />CAN NOT<br />IMPOSE definitively heresy<br />on the Universal Church.<br />He can think it, say it, and even propose it.Fr PJMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15398030162461366280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-81419249727578590172019-03-13T01:34:19.014+00:002019-03-13T01:34:19.014+00:00Robert Snell (despite his seeming use of the argum...Robert Snell (despite his seeming use of the argument "if I tell you something three times it is true) and Vae Victis (and maybe Banshee) seem to think (or assume) that the decrees of an ecumenical council, explicitly ratified and endorsed by a pope (St. Leo II, not, as I inadvertently wrote, III) can be magicked away. I don't think so.<br /><br />Pope Honorius may nor have been a William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09043433059401608468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46284338589202554782019-03-12T23:51:20.685+00:002019-03-12T23:51:20.685+00:00(1) I thought I made it abundantly clear that I di...(1) I thought I made it abundantly clear that I did not regard the 'syllogisms' I devised as sound. I included the word "apparently" THREE TIMES. How many times does one have to say something ... I often wish that people would read what I write ...<br /><br />(2) Whether Honorius was a heretic is a secondary matter. The fact is that the Catholic Church in an Ecumenical Council Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-12462930317518337182019-03-12T19:53:56.704+00:002019-03-12T19:53:56.704+00:00It would seem that Honorius did not teach heresy, ...It would seem that Honorius did not teach heresy, because what he was talking about was not what the Monothelites were talking about. Indeed, he is most!y criticized for failure to teach in a timely manner, thus putting out the fires of heresy.<br /><br />But it would also seem that many of the Monothelites were not talking about what they were said to be talking about, and may not have been Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-36706368060612938272019-03-12T19:12:00.923+00:002019-03-12T19:12:00.923+00:00Milton Freeman famously (infamously) said, We are ...Milton Freeman famously (infamously) said, <i>We are all Keynesians now</i> in reference to the fact that then more and more governments were adopting John Maynard Keynes basic ideas about government involvement in the economy.<br /><br />In reference to the inflation of sedevacantism blogs and the eruption of more and more Catholic counterfeiting private judgment declarations of <i>Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4410301353569044372019-03-12T17:24:14.236+00:002019-03-12T17:24:14.236+00:00Bruvver Eccles wrote:
"The syllogism is impe...Bruvver Eccles wrote:<br /><br />"The syllogism is impeccable, so the question is, which statement is false?<br />(1) Popes do not teach heresy;<br />(2) Honorius taught heresy." <br /><br />Any Catholic who accepts, as one must, the ecumenicity of the Sixth Ecumenical Council (Constantinople III, 680-1) and the ratification of its acts and decrees by Pope St. Leo III, will necessarily William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09043433059401608468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-91491234091462354762019-03-12T15:17:41.115+00:002019-03-12T15:17:41.115+00:00Dear Mr. Hunwicke, the second premise of the first...Dear Mr. Hunwicke, the second premise of the first syllogism is false, and you’d know that if you have read St. Robert Bellarmine.Vae Victishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16991083890316385610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20163581923093229312019-03-12T15:10:16.662+00:002019-03-12T15:10:16.662+00:00The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to th...The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to the whole church is refuted in the book:<br /><br />The Church of Christ (1955) by<br />Father E. Sylvester Berry (author, 1879 to 1954)<br />ISBN 978–1–60608–802–9<br />and also by<br /><br />Tumultuous Times (2004)<br />by Francisco and Dominic Radecki<br />ISBN 0–9715061–0–8<br />and also by<br /><br />Papal Error?: A Defense of Popes Said to wolfrunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843055001195545140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70238313137815925982019-03-12T15:05:26.066+00:002019-03-12T15:05:26.066+00:00The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to th...The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to the whole church is refuted in the book:<br /><br />The Church of Christ (1955) by<br />Father E. Sylvester Berry (author, 1879 to 1954)<br />ISBN 978–1–60608–802–9<br />and also by<br /><br />Tumultuous Times (2004)<br />by Francisco and Dominic Radecki<br />ISBN 0–9715061–0–8<br />and also by<br /><br />Papal Error?: A Defense of Popes Said to wolfrunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843055001195545140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32910946919759888822019-03-12T15:05:25.520+00:002019-03-12T15:05:25.520+00:00The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to th...The claim that Pope Honorius I taught heresy to the whole church is refuted in the book:<br /><br />The Church of Christ (1955) by<br />Father E. Sylvester Berry (author, 1879 to 1954)<br />ISBN 978–1–60608–802–9<br />and also by<br /><br />Tumultuous Times (2004)<br />by Francisco and Dominic Radecki<br />ISBN 0–9715061–0–8<br />and also by<br /><br />Papal Error?: A Defense of Popes Said to wolfrunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843055001195545140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-87809099753641398612019-03-12T14:54:47.320+00:002019-03-12T14:54:47.320+00:00Of course, Honorius didn't think he was infall...Of course, Honorius didn't think he was infallible...unlike some popes I could mention.Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31231732581409202362019-03-12T14:44:39.589+00:002019-03-12T14:44:39.589+00:00The papal accoutrements do not lift the Pope from ...The papal accoutrements do not lift the Pope from his human nature. He still must have free will and thus the ability to sin, to be in error. Popes go to confession. There is that need. Peter and Judas had their failings, as did the others. In a fallen world there are no islands of perfection, and certainly not behind the Vatican walls. To err is human. The Pope is human, ergo... Yes? Humans workJ Hannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442249993291570593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55120742757289097502019-03-12T11:32:17.915+00:002019-03-12T11:32:17.915+00:00The syllogism is impeccable, so the question is, w...The syllogism is impeccable, so the question is, which statement is false?<br />(1) Popes do not teach heresy;<br />(2) Honorius taught heresy.Eccleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00357168852208499013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45063026855989302012019-03-12T10:56:02.662+00:002019-03-12T10:56:02.662+00:00I think what you are describing is the difference ...I think what you are describing is the difference between a descriptive discipline and a prescriptive one.<br /><br />Properly speaking, theology has to rely on description first: God is the subject, and the evidence is the various sorts of divine revelation and Church doctrine. Any logical conclusions have to follow from the evidence, and a theologian has to remain in touch with God and know HimBansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.com