tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post6768481674345978508..comments2024-03-29T01:24:45.251+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Matthew Hazell busts some nasty novel numerical mythsFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-44253773090404478962021-07-18T10:53:34.542+01:002021-07-18T10:53:34.542+01:00A proclamation, however, is possible in various wa...A proclamation, however, is possible in various way. A good possibilty not disturbing the latin language integrity of the traditional celebrations would be a public proclamation of the readings of the day by pinning the vernacular translations onto the church door.Ansgerushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04185687782930863643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-87287797567165088412021-07-18T10:43:04.606+01:002021-07-18T10:43:04.606+01:00The Motu Proprio is just saying" In these cel...The Motu Proprio is just saying" In these celebrations the readings are proclaimed in the vernacular language, using translations of the Sacred Scripture approved for liturgical use by the respective Episcopal Conferences". I do not find the word "only". But following this Motu literally, it would not be sufficient to read also in the vernacular just one of the readings, but Ansgerushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04185687782930863643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-16388337970769973922021-07-18T08:17:48.382+01:002021-07-18T08:17:48.382+01:00The document does not forbid the proclamation of t...The document does not forbid the proclamation of the Gospel in Latin. It simply says that the readings are proclaimed in the vernacular, which describes the existing situation in most places.<br /><br />As for the Novus Ordo, check out Easter Sunday Mass in St Peter's Square, where the Gospel is chanted in Latin and Greek. On Good Friday the St John Passion is chanted by three deacons, again John Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027156691859606002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67861939424528418392021-07-18T04:57:48.422+01:002021-07-18T04:57:48.422+01:00'The [re-]positioning of prayers is ... of som...'The [re-]positioning of prayers is ... of some significance.' <br />Of course it is! Like the deliberate niggling changes in feast dates, it was intended to disorient, confuse, and impress upon the faithful that there was to be no continuity with the preceding liturgy: an impression that, decades later, the hierarchy seems at pains to contradict, so far with little success.John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30910667470378312382021-07-18T04:41:59.446+01:002021-07-18T04:41:59.446+01:00@Colin Spinks - Art. 3.3 does not forbid the procl...@Colin Spinks - Art. 3.3 does not forbid the proclamation of the Gospel in Latin. It says rather 'the readings are [to be] proclaimed in the vernacular language'. The Epistle and Gospel (aka the readings) are invariably read out clearly in English (i.e. proclaimed) by the celebrant from the pulpit after the Latin text has been either silently or quietly read at the altar (Low Mass) or John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-19745324336554737442021-07-18T04:19:44.020+01:002021-07-18T04:19:44.020+01:00" If he eliminated the use of the Pseudo-Hipp..." If he eliminated the use of the Pseudo-Hippolytan prayer on Sundays and feasts; if he secured the use of the Roman Canon at least on those days which IGMR commends ..." then he would be realizing the Pope's clear assurance in his letter accompanying Traditionis Custodes that "Whoever wishes to celebrate with devotion according to earlier forms of the liturgy can find in the John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-12964467268351538882021-07-18T04:06:36.444+01:002021-07-18T04:06:36.444+01:00" If he eliminated the use of the Pseudo-Hipp..." If he eliminated the use of the Pseudo-Hippolytan prayer on Sundays and feasts; if he secured the use of the Roman Canon at least on those days which IGMR commends ..." then he would be realizing the Pope's clear assurance in his letter accompanying Traditionis Custodes that "Whoever wishes to celebrate with devotion according to earlier forms of the liturgy can find in the John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-42390298803977952742021-07-17T21:57:35.396+01:002021-07-17T21:57:35.396+01:00Let's say that 90% of the text really was pres...Let's say that 90% of the text really was preserved. Someone might wonder, then, what's the harm in using the 1962 Missal and what was the point of Vatican II?Patrick https://www.blogger.com/profile/05255276399870325008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-82954214133824459392021-07-17T19:29:44.888+01:002021-07-17T19:29:44.888+01:00Bishop Stock of Leeds celebrated a Solemn Pontific...Bishop Stock of Leeds celebrated a Solemn Pontifical Mass for the annual Requiem of Bishop Wheeler in the Cathedral in 2017. Chattohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14488939389859451887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3393719065766158582021-07-17T18:46:28.643+01:002021-07-17T18:46:28.643+01:00
Mgr Alan Hopes (East Anglia) has celebrated S P H...<br />Mgr Alan Hopes (East Anglia) has celebrated S P H Mass in the old form in his own Cathedral a couple of years ago, the first such for over 50 years.It was an honour to be presentvetusta ecclesiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454059029260192711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-66419353586926025082021-07-17T14:14:25.156+01:002021-07-17T14:14:25.156+01:00Another thing: could someone clarify? This documen...Another thing: could someone clarify? This document forbids proclamation of the Gospel in Latin in the EF Mass. However, Latin is still the official language of the Church and of the NO Mass. Presumably then, it is still legal to read the Gospel in Latin in a NO Mass? What a right schmozzle, as a late Australian cricket commentator might have said...<br />Colin Spinkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06187466247865796371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-44772477044735811002021-07-17T14:08:21.945+01:002021-07-17T14:08:21.945+01:00"prince Matecki" summarises the content ..."prince Matecki" summarises the content pretty well. The most worrying elements for me are: 1) Art.3.3: insistence that Scripture be read in the Vernacular - this seems to contradict the edicts of Vatican II which state that the Vernacular "may be used". 2) the underlying assumption of this document is that the only rationale for using the 1962 Rite is an unwillingness to &Colin Spinkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06187466247865796371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-48138303609576518732021-07-17T13:09:24.664+01:002021-07-17T13:09:24.664+01:00A decent number of bishops apparently just said, &...A decent number of bishops apparently just said, "Oh, yeah, I hereby give permission to all my priests to say the EF." Either "forever" or "for the foreseeable future," or "until my summer vacation is over and I see which way the wind is blowing."Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45362684150355991522021-07-17T11:58:22.996+01:002021-07-17T11:58:22.996+01:00Had Mgr Roche not moved to Rome,he would now be a ...Had Mgr Roche not moved to Rome,he would now be a suffragan of Archbishop McMahon, who is to my knowledge the only diocesan bishop in England to have celebrated a solemn Pontifical Mass in the Usus Antiquior (though I should be glad to be corrected on that point).<br /><br />Although one of those occasions had Tina Beattie of the Tablet foaming at the mouth, I should note that His Grace confoundsPMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144651697262763099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75270926556809519332021-07-17T11:03:29.379+01:002021-07-17T11:03:29.379+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Grant Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381331872077276383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-28265536428809945742021-07-16T13:27:38.622+01:002021-07-16T13:27:38.622+01:00Here the link to the official version, the officia...Here the link to the official version, the official english translation is in the lower half, just scroll down:<br />https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2021/07/16/0469/01014.html#ingMprince Mateckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10940572898035931187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-63757198796060252762021-07-16T13:18:35.375+01:002021-07-16T13:18:35.375+01:00By the way, the motu proprio starts with the words...By the way, the motu proprio starts with the words:<br />"Traditionis custodes..."<br />For you to decide if that is false flag, irony or sarcasm.prince Mateckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10940572898035931187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-12270034264094176942021-07-16T12:37:51.076+01:002021-07-16T12:37:51.076+01:00Well, there is a new motu proprio in the world, is...Well, there is a new motu proprio in the world, issued today by our holy father. If I understand it correctly, the use of the extraordinary form is by prior permission of the ordinary of a diocese only, in churches and on days designated by the ordinary only.<br />Lessons and Gospel are to be read in the vernacular and only in the vernacular.<br />Churches that are regular parishes are not to be prince Mateckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10940572898035931187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70624448898999498442021-07-16T11:36:57.263+01:002021-07-16T11:36:57.263+01:00Good morning, Father. What you said is relevant. ...Good morning, Father. What you said is relevant. My beloved fellow readers should look at<br />https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-07/pope-motu-proprio-traditionis-custodes-1962-roman-missal-liturgy.html<br /><br />Paul in Melbourne, Australiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567865548737050757noreply@blogger.com