tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post5499336796624705835..comments2024-03-29T01:24:45.251+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Sunday MassFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4058979984775714432018-01-11T02:56:19.339+00:002018-01-11T02:56:19.339+00:00I forgot to say that, in the past, parish unity wa...I forgot to say that, in the past, parish unity was built on things like guilds and clubs, often supporting devotion to particular saints or to certain titles of the Lord. Necessarily, Father and the parish council were not running everything. (Which probably made life easier for both Father and the parish council.)Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67579946347496441532018-01-11T02:52:48.396+00:002018-01-11T02:52:48.396+00:00Here in the US, a lot of times the church _is_ bur...Here in the US, a lot of times the church _is_ bursting at the seams at every Mass, or at least at a lot of them. It depends where you go, of course.<br /><br />The amount of reverence at a Vigil Mass is directly proportional to how seriously the priests, readers, music ministers, etc., all take it. Reverence begets reverence. (Although it also works the same way -- a pious congregation Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-9428120843775691842018-01-10T17:34:31.321+00:002018-01-10T17:34:31.321+00:00The Ordinariate should start the restoration of th...The Ordinariate should start the restoration of the Sunday morning mass as the one common mass for the parish to join together, by abandoning all so-called Saturday evening "vigil" masses, and celebrating instead only the real vigils, e.g. those of Easter, Pentecost and Christmass, and if you like also the other ancient, actual vigils, observing fast and helding mass after the None and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23132724014193310682018-01-10T16:07:52.822+00:002018-01-10T16:07:52.822+00:00I would say that the number of doctors, nurses, po...I would say that the number of doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, EMTs etc. who frequently need to work on Sunday for the public good is not insignificant. If we drop the vigil mass, they simply no longer have the obligation. However, that in itself seems to reinforce the obligation mentality.CE Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10889864905674203341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39856559816919129402018-01-10T14:54:14.376+00:002018-01-10T14:54:14.376+00:00If there were no vigil Mass then people like my hu...If there were no vigil Mass then people like my husband who works on Sunday wouldn't be able to go to Mass.Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01469622835449220113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49395705139876728892018-01-10T13:12:06.168+00:002018-01-10T13:12:06.168+00:00The late bishop of East Anglia, Michael Evans, onc...The late bishop of East Anglia, Michael Evans, once suggested that there should be just one Sunday Mass (on Sunday!) in each parish, and only when the church was bursting at the seams should another Mass be considered. Our plethora of Sunday Masses at various times, including Saturday evening, very much detract from any sense of the community as the body of Christ. So also does the understanding Savonarolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12547523172291007631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3382796059105724812018-01-10T09:41:37.330+00:002018-01-10T09:41:37.330+00:00So much comes down to practicalities. My wife and...So much comes down to practicalities. My wife and I drive to an FSSP "Mass centre" once a month for their monthly Sung Mass, and the rest of the time we go to a Low Mass at a much closer parish.<br /><br />The FSSP Mass is at 8am and we typically spend a good 30-45mins chatting to people afterwards over coffee and biscuits, but our local Low Mass is at 5pm and people rush home straightRiddleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18352250581662283650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-87802613324514208952018-01-09T23:16:06.048+00:002018-01-09T23:16:06.048+00:00vetusta ecclesia,
It is certainly the Eastern tra...vetusta ecclesia,<br /><br />It is certainly the Eastern tradition that there only be one Divine Liturgy per altar each day (though some larger churches will have chapels with another altar where another Liturgy can be said). In practice, especially among Eastern Catholics, there are often two Liturgies, often in different languages. Sadly, and perhaps predictably, this is usually accompanied by Josh Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02764499976590872445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37966667565672028622018-01-09T23:07:44.758+00:002018-01-09T23:07:44.758+00:00We have experienced great parish life at our SSPX ...We have experienced great parish life at our SSPX chapel, both now and at the one we attended before we moved. When we were still attending Novus Ordo, there was nothing like it. I was happy if I could get through a parking lot without liberal bumper stickers and immodest clothes depressing me. Trying to help by hosting study groups and teaching catechism only gave us the boot. The Traditional Clarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05789528617476905918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-40429750994801652262018-01-09T21:36:45.164+00:002018-01-09T21:36:45.164+00:00I am an American and my wife from a small town in ...I am an American and my wife from a small town in Poland. In Poland, rural communal Catholicism is alive (at least where she is from). The larger town (call it a "hub") which the other villages are nearest to (call them "spokes") has a single, large Parish church; each village, or cluster of villages, has one or shares a chapel, where Sunday mass is celebrated. One September Nahbdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08679400877557958762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31953748918820389452018-01-09T21:21:26.057+00:002018-01-09T21:21:26.057+00:00It is common in smaller ethnic parishes with only ...It is common in smaller ethnic parishes with only 1 or 2 Masses to share a common meal each Sunday after the 10:30 or 11:00. Perhaps not quite the same with the demise of the midnight fast, but a good step.<br /><br />But even aside from the vigil Mass, it is a significant challenge for a larger parish with 5 Sunday Masses, one in Spanish (or Polish, or Vietnamese), for the fortunate or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-2395389791632183222018-01-09T21:03:58.149+00:002018-01-09T21:03:58.149+00:00I wonder whether making vigil Masses true vigils m...I wonder whether making vigil Masses true vigils might clear up some of this uneasiness. Say, e.g., holding the vigil Mass at 9 pm, so that it has the character of a "night watch". This would allow those who truly have difficulty finding a Sunday Mass to fulfil the precept (and I suspect that this number is relatively small), as well as making a "sacrifice" appropriate to a Father Stephen Schumacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06120791789269231093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-24371027652846524362018-01-09T20:10:28.093+00:002018-01-09T20:10:28.093+00:00I would say this. I'm glad there is the optio...I would say this. I'm glad there is the option of a vigil Mass for the sake of those whose obligations would otherwise prevent them from attending Mass altogether. But even if we didn't have the vigil Mass, given the current state of the liturgy, we would still have a widespread "getting Mass out of the way" mentality. This mentality is indeed partly accounted for by the Anita Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11305092097247290243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-77373865125002277472018-01-09T19:31:24.445+00:002018-01-09T19:31:24.445+00:00I now and then go to a Vigil Mass in my NO parish,...<br /><br />I now and then go to a Vigil Mass in my NO parish, and it's almost inevitably dreary. Many older folk there, with their care-takers, admirably, as you say, fulfilling their obligation. The only bright side, aside from the presence of the Lord, is there are a few families with adult children with special needs, and it is truly beautiful to behold the patience and love these parentsMichael Ortizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823627318269572922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1699323905360201542018-01-09T18:21:02.226+00:002018-01-09T18:21:02.226+00:00As I understand it the Easterns have one Liturgy e...As I understand it the Easterns have one Liturgy each Sunday. Compare that with the West. I have seen churches in Poland, in towns with multiple churches, advertising 9 Sunday Masses. In my diocese, where, apparently there is a crisis of priestly numbers, an urban PP told me there were 13 Masses within a mile available each w/end to his flock. I also know of a chapel-of-ease where there is no vetusta ecclesiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454059029260192711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33225169576880312252018-01-09T17:43:19.699+00:002018-01-09T17:43:19.699+00:00Father, I have felt this about vigil masses almost...Father, I have felt this about vigil masses almost since becoming a Catholic. I am glad to read that others feel the same.<br />I am enough of an old ex Presbyterian ( which is what I am) to feel the need for the Catholic church to be the Lord's People meeting on the Lord's Day to be fed by Word and Sacrament.<br />Alantradgardmastarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13116967655904601740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4159722989668387902018-01-09T17:32:39.228+00:002018-01-09T17:32:39.228+00:00Dear Father,
When the EF becomes once again the do...Dear Father,<br />When the EF becomes once again the dominant rite, and there are not “vigil Masses to go to, wont that bring us back together on Sunday mornings?<br />RHRickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807303962672300156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33354345898154893242018-01-09T17:16:46.861+00:002018-01-09T17:16:46.861+00:00Can we, Dare we, Abolish the vigil Mass? It's ...Can we, Dare we, Abolish the vigil Mass? It's hardly keeping Sunday, the Lord's day holy is it? <br /><br />Sunday Mass itself is sloppy with holy Communion in the hand. Lay people on the altar not wearing a tie in jeans etc. Where's the respect? Why don't women cover their hair like they used to do?<br /> We must bring back Sunday observance. Priests should tell their flock not Paul Hellyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12155821750459419187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20243736971940407802018-01-09T17:12:26.189+00:002018-01-09T17:12:26.189+00:00They could do it by eliminating anticipated Masses...They could do it by eliminating anticipated Masses.<br /><br />When JP II issued Dies Domini, I thought that maybe the Bishops might take the time to make some practical changes, or even adjustments.<br /><br />That Apostolic Letter landed like a dodo bird, dead the day it arrived.<br /><br />And yet, with AL, there a sudden impetus to "DO SOMETHING".<br /><br />Father, basically I haveccchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02889272634837091761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23870823597899363042018-01-09T16:52:59.421+00:002018-01-09T16:52:59.421+00:00Would you consider bi- and trinating a surrender a...Would you consider bi- and trinating a surrender also, of Liturgy to convenience. As a boy I remember my parish church having three morning Masses at 7.30 (for those who HAD to work on a Sunday) 8.30 and the 10.30 sung Mass. All were well attended but the 8.30 was packed with over 400 people. the others, 250-350. The 8.30 was liked especially by those receiving Holy Communion. It required two B flathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17611595580578224726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-61899142884946683182018-01-09T15:29:45.262+00:002018-01-09T15:29:45.262+00:00Father,
It indeed exists in FSSP communities. My ...Father,<br /><br />It indeed exists in FSSP communities. My parish is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, some 42 miles away. A round trip of 84 miles. My family and I have driven it each Sunday, and often enough several times a week since 2005. My local, Novus Ordo parish, a nightmare gymnasium in the round, is only a mile and a half from where I sit.<br /><br />Despite the fact my parish isn't Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18236644423952214095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46636729800009567642018-01-09T14:38:37.335+00:002018-01-09T14:38:37.335+00:00Yes, Father, if I may be so bold, there are ways t...Yes, Father, if I may be so bold, there are ways to restore that sense of Catholic Community on SUNDAY. First, preach that the Commandment to "keep holy The Lord's Day" is to be obeyed, in full. This means that Sunday morning is to be dedicated to worship of God, in community. The rest of the day is to be used for 'holy' things. This does not include golf, shopping, "A Daughter of Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01439393756090630198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-71435690589679314372018-01-09T14:07:16.758+00:002018-01-09T14:07:16.758+00:00Dear Father,
I do think there is a way, but it do...Dear Father,<br /><br />I do think there is a way, but it does involve (I afraid) jettisoning but one of your premises. To wit, we must, must, must jettison the Saturday evening Mass that the authorities permit to fulfill the Sunday obligation. Given what you've written above, I find that to be very sufficient justification for this solution.<br /><br />Sincere regards,<br /><br />BenBen of the Bayouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300583569226801488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84074097263898978392018-01-09T13:44:18.565+00:002018-01-09T13:44:18.565+00:00Perhaps a "renewal" of the Vigil Mass on...Perhaps a "renewal" of the Vigil Mass on Saturday might be a good place to start.<br />First, of course, is the time: after sunset. Now, it has lost some of its convenience<br />Second, a new discussion of the Eucharistic Fast. If this is the Sunday Mass, when should the fast begin?<br />Third, the nature of the Mass. Rather than this being the Folk Mass, or, horrors, no music at all (Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-27712008578064503252018-01-09T12:19:21.299+00:002018-01-09T12:19:21.299+00:00We get very close to it in our FSSP parish. People...We get very close to it in our FSSP parish. People wearing their Sunday Best, the same familiar faces week after week, the kids all playing together outside while the adults catch up over lunch in the church basement.<br /><br />What we don't have however--and this really can take a toll--is a "local" community. Most of us are driving to Mass from afar…an hour or more each way. I Claudio Salvuccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08831694822879009083noreply@blogger.com