tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post5394546701968324250..comments2024-03-29T14:32:13.886+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: So beautiful ... why do they hate it so much?Fr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20127282395971855732022-10-29T21:12:31.199+01:002022-10-29T21:12:31.199+01:00I believe the problem is a lot simpler than we dar...I believe the problem is a lot simpler than we dare to admit. Catholicism and Vat2ism are two different religions that uneasily co-exist in the same juridical space. Traditional Catholicism (i.e. the religion of our forefathers, saints, and martyrs) is growing exponentially (witness the 20,000 young trads walking the Chartres pilgrimage this year. The Vat2ist religion, on the other hand, is grahammoorhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823974786316836240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-24026055342961648562022-10-12T16:21:49.519+01:002022-10-12T16:21:49.519+01:00Stephen -
While I understand the assertion you a...Stephen - <br /><br />While I understand the assertion you are making, it is not a persuasive argument because it does not address the issue raised by so many careful observers over the ages, and wrestled with at Vatican I, including at that moment for two instances John H. Newman and Lord Acton, who observed, as held by the 1st Vatican Council, that the Pontiff’s powers are limited, and he is Christopher Boegelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162023841937939481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-12553816340263994172022-10-12T15:56:12.276+01:002022-10-12T15:56:12.276+01:00To E sapelion -
I agree that you raise very perti...To E sapelion -<br /><br />I agree that you raise very pertinent points, snd very much agree with the analogy about “rails versus driving free.”<br /><br />I think your observations are in line with what Msgr. Gamber and also Joseph Ratzinger point out. A memorable Gamber line from his book on the matter is that the Mass had become “ossified.” A continuous problem to be sure. I appreciate yourChristopher Boegelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162023841937939481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-26867678196167919322022-10-12T00:12:19.871+01:002022-10-12T00:12:19.871+01:00Holding contradictory concepts without reconciling...Holding contradictory concepts without reconciling them is a time-tested survival technique; yet the contradictions must be pointed out. For Dobszay or anybody to posit that he is the adjudicator of what does or not does not pass muster for a Pope is to replace the Pope is his mind with himself - what is in effect protestantism. The western concept of authority and the power to adjudicate Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833345391579579562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-68776882995755842372022-10-11T22:06:33.275+01:002022-10-11T22:06:33.275+01:00There is also the failure, before Pius X, to addre...There is also the failure, before Pius X, to address two key pastoral concerns of the Council of Trent. Neither appears explicitly in the 1570 Missal.<br />Trent Session XXII chapter 8 on the use of the Mass of the Catechumens to instruct people.<br />Trent Session XXII chapter 6 on the desirability (but not necessity) of general congregational communion at every Mass.<br />Both major shifts in E sapelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09886268559214926797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31846028985391089752022-10-11T21:42:39.461+01:002022-10-11T21:42:39.461+01:00To ChrisB, yes that is Dobszay's analysis, muc...To ChrisB, yes that is Dobszay's analysis, much of it correct, but why did it happen?<br />As soon as Vatican II said some measure of vernacular might be permitted a groundswell of loathing of Latin was revealed. Paul VI feared schism, notably in the Low countries and Frisia, where dozens of amateur compositions of alternative Canons of the Mass circulated, many published. Loathing of Latin E sapelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09886268559214926797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39971443593670423662022-10-11T14:09:14.012+01:002022-10-11T14:09:14.012+01:00To Stephen, who posted on 3 October taking issue w...To Stephen, who posted on 3 October taking issue with my comment:<br /><br />You asked "How can this [i.e., Laszlo Dobszay calling the NO Mass the "Bugnini Rite"] be put forth as having any basis in reality when it was promulgated and defended by the entire Roman magisterium, including and most ardently defended by Pope St. Paul VI himself? NOTHING Bugnini and Co. ever did was not ChrisBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07371187001977645056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37177659311893623462022-10-04T13:26:26.301+01:002022-10-04T13:26:26.301+01:00Dear Dave P. Yes, Satan hates everything Holy.
As...Dear Dave P. Yes, Satan hates everything Holy.<br /><br />As for changes in doctrine (contra Vatican 1) re Subsists ...<br /><br /><br /> <br /><i>Italian philosopher, Paolo Pasqualucci, has produced a list of twenty six departures from Catholic principle to be found in the documents of the Second Vatican Council. He refers to them as ‘points of rupture’. The list, reproduced on the website OneMick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84902037928076493012022-10-04T11:15:46.615+01:002022-10-04T11:15:46.615+01:00I think what you say about the Oratorians is so tr...I think what you say about the Oratorians is so true. They are as enthusiastic about the Ordinary Form as they are about the Extraordinary Form. They never give the impression that the Modern Roman Rite is ‘second-best’.Peter Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04943176983164759168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-63137521253757391482022-10-04T04:52:27.265+01:002022-10-04T04:52:27.265+01:00@ ccc: I hope that many priests in the Diocese of...@ ccc: I hope that many priests in the Diocese of Arlington (where I lived until recently) will keep on saying the TLM, and do so in such a way that they don't close off the faithful. For example, they can say a private mass (in the parish church) and (a) leave the doors unlocked, and (b) just "happen to" mention that they say a private mass "in the evening" like, you Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07159134209092031897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1071039677541862492022-10-04T01:11:01.996+01:002022-10-04T01:11:01.996+01:00Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosque:
Does Satan equally...Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosque:<br /><br />Does Satan equally hate the Divine Liturgies/Qorbanas offered in the Eastern Rites of the Church?Dave P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11338264736775852061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-13652837047382017852022-10-03T23:16:11.510+01:002022-10-03T23:16:11.510+01:00Christopher, you write "hat tip to Laszlo Dob...Christopher, you write "hat tip to Laszlo Dobszay of Hungary for proving the “Non-Roman” identity in the so-called NO, or as he calls it, the “Bugnini Rite”." How can this by put forth as having any basis in reality when it was promulgated and defended by the entire Roman magisterium, including and most ardently defended by Pope St. Paul VI himself? NOTHING Bugnini and Co. ever did Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833345391579579562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-34759798742657946022022-10-03T22:15:43.228+01:002022-10-03T22:15:43.228+01:00https://onepeterfive.com/subsistit-church-partial-...https://onepeterfive.com/subsistit-church-partial-marriage/<br /><br />Subsists in is a novelty that us Catholics were warned (by St Vincent of Lerins) to shun.<br /><br />I routinely read Dom Gueranger using subsists but he would not have accepted this novelly for Jesus Christ established His One True Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church. His Church does not subsist in the Catholic Church Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37839836033306630542022-10-03T22:00:40.266+01:002022-10-03T22:00:40.266+01:00Dear Eamonn. IF subsists means the same as is, the...Dear Eamonn. IF subsists means the same as is, then why the change?<br /><br />When it is not necesaary to change is necessary not to change.Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-79400802895393475542022-10-03T20:17:29.782+01:002022-10-03T20:17:29.782+01:00The Anglican Church tried to be everything to ever...The Anglican Church tried to be everything to everybody. It is now nothing to nobody.<br />The Holy Roman Catholic Church has here a model which it should strongly avoid but looks loke they won`t...Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444205341223401272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20789122535864695292022-10-03T19:37:28.346+01:002022-10-03T19:37:28.346+01:00When I cannot get to the nearby Latin Mass, I go t...When I cannot get to the nearby Latin Mass, I go to my former parish near home. Three parishes have been merged into one with three sites. Masses were cut but not the Folk Mass, or the Contemporary Choir. Yesterday I was treated to an emotional bout of singing after Holy Communion. My sister was with me. For a short time she had left the Church and attended a mega Bible Chapel. She recognized theMatthew F Klukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04315970978087291635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-53207271081575420652022-10-03T15:51:28.772+01:002022-10-03T15:51:28.772+01:00Richard's suggestion above that the root of al...Richard's suggestion above that the root of all the trouble was the replacement of "est" with "subsistit in" in Lumen Gentium 8 is is a bit wide of the mark. If you read Boethius' Contra Eutychen, the meaning of "subsistit" becomes very clear. While it is true that the phrase "subsistit in" is a neologism, the meaning of it in Latin is made very Éamonnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11560394580179348894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60643808844780355142022-10-03T08:04:37.085+01:002022-10-03T08:04:37.085+01:00Whereas in the real world of ordinary parish life ...Whereas in the real world of ordinary parish life there is none so rigid as the baby-boomer 'progressive' who is still living in 1972.PMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144651697262763099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-73410122213324387322022-10-01T17:19:20.127+01:002022-10-01T17:19:20.127+01:00Father: I live in the Diocese of Arlington, where...Father: I live in the Diocese of Arlington, where 1/3rd of our Parishes had integrated the old Mass. It was, perhaps, one of the best possible examples of implementation of Summorum Pontificum. Recently, our Bishop exiled us to 8 gymnasiums and told the remaining 5 parishes they had 2 years to shut down their remaining Masses. So, from 21 Parishes to 8 gymns and 5 parishes.<br /><br />The ccchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02889272634837091761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-54033734921861373252022-10-01T16:38:27.214+01:002022-10-01T16:38:27.214+01:00Satan hates the Real Mass.
Satan rules the world.
...Satan hates the Real Mass.<br />Satan rules the world.<br />The worldly hate the Real Mass.Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51558111886935623412022-10-01T16:26:29.544+01:002022-10-01T16:26:29.544+01:00What a singularly lucid entry, Father: Yes, it is ...What a singularly lucid entry, Father: Yes, it is fear that motivates Modernist (or pseudo-conservative even) hatred of the Mass of our Catholic ancestors. Fear of the return of a religion they no longer possess or profess; fear of the supernatural power of beauty and reverence; fear of the moral exigencies of the True Faith; and, above all, fear of not being favored or "spared" by thecoradcorloquiturhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07125381369456761748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20578105705443767882022-10-01T16:24:12.837+01:002022-10-01T16:24:12.837+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.coradcorloquiturhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07125381369456761748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-17990467085490847602022-10-01T14:08:17.984+01:002022-10-01T14:08:17.984+01:00I think this is true. And I ask myself what is th...I think this is true. And I ask myself what is the driving fear of the men and women hostile to the old rite?<br /><br />My own sense is that the bedrock hostility derives from a rejection of the actual words of the ancient prayers themselves, and the theology that the prayers confess, and this rejection reveals itself when observing what prayers are literally excised or by implementation Christopher Boegelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162023841937939481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41977616067580256222022-10-01T11:22:55.031+01:002022-10-01T11:22:55.031+01:00This morning I read an article linked from Life Si...This morning I read an article linked from Life Site News, which convincingly claimed that it's all to do with Lumen Gentium switching from an 'is' to a 'subsists in'.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01824005176362146901noreply@blogger.com