tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post2735277362875515396..comments2024-03-28T22:56:16.016+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Apostolicae curae againFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-59753521043781218832008-12-23T16:58:00.000+00:002008-12-23T16:58:00.000+00:00I realize that what I will say is off point, but I...I realize that what I will say is off point, but I think it of utmost importance. I am not an academic by any means and am not qualified to speak to the status of Anglican orders. I seek only the salvation of souls, for as Christ says, "What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul in the process."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps one should consider that what is most important is the salvationFr Scott Bailey, C.Ss.R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11193940613766457443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55300985406102669512008-12-19T19:46:00.000+00:002008-12-19T19:46:00.000+00:00Andy B - I think you have the agreement of the Co...Andy B - I think you have the agreement of the Council of Trent in that the intention required is only to have the intention at least of doing what the Church does, the expression "intendere facere quod facit Esslesia" having been current since the early 13th century.Heresy is no bar to the transmission of holy orders. This seems to me Catholic teaching but I stand open to correction.Independenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08199774656279385253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-12402933315560840622008-12-19T12:57:00.000+00:002008-12-19T12:57:00.000+00:00Motu has pretty well said all I would say but your...Motu has pretty well said all I would say but your objection was interesting and valid.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12813595031543071453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-36183064344475407972008-12-19T08:17:00.000+00:002008-12-19T08:17:00.000+00:00What the Church does is to confer orders that are ...What the Church does is to confer orders that are only capable of reception by the male of the species. To intend to confer androgynous orders is not what the Church does. Male gender is not of the <I> plene esse </I> nor the <I> bene esse </I> of orders, but pertains to its <I> esse </I>.motupropriohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06261356560114077508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-86425110072280073902008-12-19T06:15:00.000+00:002008-12-19T06:15:00.000+00:00I question the idea that the intention is "clearly...I question the idea that the intention is "clearly faulty in the vast majority of Anglican bishops as they 'ordain' women and in so doing prove that they have a false idea of what ordination and the priesthood is. They do not intend to do what the church does." The reason is, they truly <EM>are</EM> intending to do what the Church does, just upon women as well. It's quite ridiculous of course, Father Bartushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00015662424459242082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67640828193922934452008-12-18T14:51:00.000+00:002008-12-18T14:51:00.000+00:00I have never felt a burning need to condemn Anglic...I have never felt a burning need to condemn Anglican Orders as invalid (though it does neatly mean one does not have to worry about all the sacrilegious behaviour of Anglican clerics before the Oxford Movement). Be that as it may, I offer two objections:<BR/><BR/>a) The CONTEXT of the ordinations with the Dutch bishops was still one of an Anglican service. Such a context (if Apostolicae curae is Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12813595031543071453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-14984502962884287492008-12-17T07:57:00.000+00:002008-12-17T07:57:00.000+00:00I always thought it was a mistake that the so-call...I always thought it was a mistake that the so-called 'Polish Plot' was allowed to founder. My impression was that this was partly from reluctance in the PNC to be seen to be acting anti-ecumenically against the CofE, (particularly when the WO debate had not yet split them from the European Old Catholics), and partly as a <I>quid pro quo</I> when the offer of 'flying bishops' started to become a motupropriohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06261356560114077508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-9374766684666015932008-12-16T23:33:00.000+00:002008-12-16T23:33:00.000+00:00Fathers, Do you then believe it sin to be absolute...Fathers, <BR/><BR/>Do you then believe it sin to be absolutely (re)ordained upon one's submission to Roman authority? Or does the fact that the priest convert is obeying the Holy Roman Pontiff negate, or at least counterbalance the offense?Iacobushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03213635300203297466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-19096201707693157402008-12-16T18:48:00.000+00:002008-12-16T18:48:00.000+00:00Thank you for the interesting further note. I find...Thank you for the interesting further note. I find it difficult, except in one case, to detect any animus in what are sometimes fairly hard hitting comments on the previous one.<BR/><BR/> As one who is not too happy with the Responsio of the Archbishops, for reasons I gave in a previous post, I am greatly indebted to you for your article in the Messenger of the Catholic League in 1994.<BR/><BR/> Independenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08199774656279385253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-35355251426811372462008-12-16T18:14:00.000+00:002008-12-16T18:14:00.000+00:00Two petty quibbles.First, shouldn't the year "1933...Two petty quibbles.<BR/><BR/>First, shouldn't the year "1933" actually be "1932" as the first application of the Dutch Touch took place on 24 June 1932?<BR/><BR/>Secondly, shouldn't the phrase be "massa damnationis" rather than "mass damnationis?"William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4745350439411642602008-12-16T17:04:00.000+00:002008-12-16T17:04:00.000+00:00Would you be confirmed sub conditione, and make yo...Would you be confirmed sub conditione, and make your confessions sub conditione too? Particularly confirmation would seem important in this respect.A Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14887725687594915934noreply@blogger.com