tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post2541263130560757415..comments2024-03-29T01:24:45.251+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: MORE BORING been there and done thatFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85884024128716735162015-10-14T03:45:09.192+01:002015-10-14T03:45:09.192+01:00FAR
FROM
THE
RHINE
“the Church as an accompanyin...FAR<br />FROM <br />THE<br />RHINE<br /><br />“the Church as an accompanying mother” (Fr. Thomas Rosica)<br /><br />Accompany my child<br />In acts of sin?<br />You’d have to first boil<br />Then peel off my skin.<br /><br />They have free will<br />But so do I –<br />And before accompany<br />In sin, I’ll die.<br /><br />Before accompany<br />Their obscene choice<br />In charity admonish<br />Long-Skirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791967605782446951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-27308292647321037582015-10-14T00:30:16.000+01:002015-10-14T00:30:16.000+01:00Jacobi, they are not steps on the way to priesthoo...Jacobi, they are not steps on the way to priesthood. They are Orders in their own right. Women cannot be or do them because women cannot be clerics. The meaning is similar to that they cannot be priests, but not quite the same. Please do not go against, for ex., Trent, by relegating the Minor Orders to yearly Seminary graduation gifts from the Bishop.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13240425842855092083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-74088567163454773832015-10-14T00:20:46.857+01:002015-10-14T00:20:46.857+01:00The diaconate is not a minor order - it is one of ...The diaconate is not a minor order - it is one of the major orders, to wit bishop, priest and deacon. All three orders are conferred by the sacrament of Holy Orders. Even those churches in the east which had deaconesses have never considered them to be in Holy Orders.<br /><br />However, there is some confusion/variation about what deaconesses in the Greek churches actually were/are. In Arab Deacon Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549825303646357455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55459785545415124122015-10-14T00:15:35.972+01:002015-10-14T00:15:35.972+01:00"what (in short) was the actual duty and func...<br /> "what (in short) was the actual duty and function of a diacona, what grace was transferred to her in her ordination (if any), did she have any defined function in a eucharist liturgy, and did she wear any liturgical garnments? Or was the title diacona simply another expression for a catechumenist and female helper at baptismn of girls?"<br /><br />No liturgical garments, no role William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46188277769150341892015-10-13T20:31:58.658+01:002015-10-13T20:31:58.658+01:00Thank you, William. So Lector still remains, presu...Thank you, William. So Lector still remains, presumably for men. The others (remaining) are therefore steps on the way to priesthood and therefore can not apply to women.Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-6140436225138181102015-10-13T20:19:50.549+01:002015-10-13T20:19:50.549+01:00Dear William Tighe,
You are stating, "it was...Dear William Tighe,<br /><br />You are stating, "it was quite clear in the East Syrian theological and canonical tradition that deaconesses were not female deacons". So, as so often we are confronted with the argument "but there exist diacona in the early church in the East", what (in short) was the actual duty and function of a diacona, what grace was transferred to her in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3162116825000871412015-10-10T00:56:02.949+01:002015-10-10T00:56:02.949+01:00I join with the Vox in offering my apologies for t...I join with the Vox in offering my apologies for the boring reports out of Canada. Viva Christo Rey!ELAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01663831681687729804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20507313130262651162015-10-09T23:40:19.182+01:002015-10-09T23:40:19.182+01:00Yes, the Prefect's book is excellent! I rememb...Yes, the Prefect's book is excellent! I remember, however, just a few short years ago, when Benedict appointed him to the CDF, a bunch of folks wet their nappies over the man, claiming that he was an arch-heretic. Now, I can't vounch for all of Mueller's work, but he's doing a fine, even heroic job where he is. <br /><br />Just a little historical perspective. Now, we have Michael Ortizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12823627318269572922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39916035156573654192015-10-09T14:55:13.429+01:002015-10-09T14:55:13.429+01:00"However, the orders of deacons, sub deacons,...<br />"However, the orders of deacons, sub deacons, exorcists and I believe, acolyte, are still recognised by all as being as stages on the way to the priesthood."<br /><br />In the Latin Church in general, all the "minor orders" save acolyte and lector were abolished in 1973; they are still retained among those trained and ordained according to the EF rites.William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-35528201372280659792015-10-09T14:26:27.257+01:002015-10-09T14:26:27.257+01:00On the "unordainability" of women to the...<br />On the "unordainability" of women to the diaconate one could hardly do better than to read *Priesthood and Diaconate:The Recipient of the Sacrament of Holy Orders from the Perspective of Creation Theology and Christology* by Gerhard Ludwig Mu(e)ller; Ignatius Press, 2002: ISBN: 0-89870-892-3. The book's author is, of course, the current Prefect of the CDF who, in this book, William Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60194066768990717512015-10-08T22:21:55.719+01:002015-10-08T22:21:55.719+01:00I never said a deacon was a priest. Please read w...I never said a deacon was a priest. Please read what I said. It is there in black and white above.<br /><br /><br />Trent established the pre-priestly minor orders as seven. Now parts of the Church, at present do not recognise some minor orders such as porter etc. as orders although others, such as the FSSP do.<br /><br />However, the orders of deacons, sub deacons, exorcists and I believe, Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51646368709167043972015-10-08T15:32:53.073+01:002015-10-08T15:32:53.073+01:00Jacobi, you've lost me. In what sense is a dea...Jacobi, you've lost me. In what sense is a deacon a priest?Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90886523605167920842015-10-07T21:14:09.625+01:002015-10-07T21:14:09.625+01:00The order of Deacon is a priestly one. Women cann...The order of Deacon is a priestly one. Women cannot become priests. Therefore, they cannot receive that order. Any such service would be meaningless. All quite simple really.<br /><br />The adjective you have used for your Canadian seems appropriate.<br /><br />But the devil does get away with it with many people. He uses Gradualism.Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37648060106959812352015-10-07T19:49:56.857+01:002015-10-07T19:49:56.857+01:00The Canadian bishops with a few exceptions are an ...The Canadian bishops with a few exceptions are an embarrassment:poorly formed, spineless, Uriah Heeps on stilts, tying themselves in knots trying to appeal to the secular world which despises them, and the uncatechised laity for whose ignorance they are responsible.Lillibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08665437159699375343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-17827898089870659742015-10-07T18:00:28.530+01:002015-10-07T18:00:28.530+01:00The devil must have found a very comfortable abode...The devil must have found a very comfortable abode in Canada, since both of these twits are Canadians.Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16637694278004594039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-61276545720897393152015-10-07T17:20:40.098+01:002015-10-07T17:20:40.098+01:00Rosica and his ilk can probably do more damage tha...Rosica and his ilk can probably do more damage than Kasper and his friendly host of heretics... the spin and the perceptions of the hoi polloi (whether or not they are practical Catholics) are what they are after at this point. As for "Provincial Autonomy" you are spot-on there as well... think "National Episcopal Conferences" and Communion-in-the-hand, girl altarboys, and The Archlaichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060424378483418961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-44898907024429303292015-10-07T15:56:35.788+01:002015-10-07T15:56:35.788+01:00And that is just how Communion in the hand became ...And that is just how Communion in the hand became almost the norm. Only two days ago I was disgusted to hear of a priest in my own diocese actually refusing somebody Communion on the tongue. Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-83067429654534394722015-10-07T15:09:06.185+01:002015-10-07T15:09:06.185+01:00Apologies from Canada, but at least we can say tha...Apologies from Canada, but at least we can say that Fr. Rosica is only a citizen, he was born in New York State, but alas, the Bishop is ours.Vox Cantorishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16987049370515084083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-5343264005287723502015-10-07T14:08:18.035+01:002015-10-07T14:08:18.035+01:00These people will try any devious route they can t...These people will try any devious route they can think of. Unfortunately the Anglican Communion has given them all sorts of ideas to suggest. It would appear that their goal is to make the Catholic Church into the Anglican Communion Mark 2 though heaven forfend that we would ever end up with a Katherine Jefferts Schori Mark 2 as an Archbishop.Highland Cathedralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519428794618769856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3436770409997404012015-10-07T13:36:15.769+01:002015-10-07T13:36:15.769+01:00The Canadian bishops, save the odd one, are an emb...The Canadian bishops, save the odd one, are an embarrassment, poorly formed, spineless Uriah Heeps on stilts, courting the approval of the media and the uncatechised Catholic majority whose ignorance they have orchestrated. <br /><br />Lillibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08665437159699375343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23500078465681397092015-10-07T12:16:33.609+01:002015-10-07T12:16:33.609+01:00How is the subject of women deacons even relevant ...How is the subject of women deacons even relevant to a synod dedicated to the family???Marco da Vinhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06092410765851812842noreply@blogger.com