tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post2443926509293863461..comments2024-03-29T01:24:45.251+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Ordinariates and ThompsonFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-38698032194192433312016-08-30T13:06:49.194+01:002016-08-30T13:06:49.194+01:00"...it hardly represents heroic commitment to...<i>"...it hardly represents heroic commitment to the Catholic religion."</i><br />Should membership or even the priesthood be restricted to heroes? Is Mr Halsall himself a hero? He is too much concerned with "Lord, what shall this man do?"Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-61064080489277176162016-08-29T13:18:05.559+01:002016-08-29T13:18:05.559+01:00"I know quite a number of priests who had alw..."I know quite a number of priests who had always planned, when they qualified for their full C of E pension (at 65ish), to be able to offer themselves for ministry full-time in the Catholic Church for no more recompense than a rent-free presbytery."<br /><br />I'm sorry but cannot you really not see what a problem this presents. While I can see good reason to "stay on for the Paul Halsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602075031268155220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51491555974689284462016-08-29T12:16:49.822+01:002016-08-29T12:16:49.822+01:00Lest I appear to be perverse in rejecting modern R...Lest I appear to be perverse in rejecting modern Roman ways, I should point out that I spent six years looking after a small and elderly congregation. I was tattracted to the church because I wanted to say Mass ad orientemdunstanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14627891322038238469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75111506951659190442016-08-29T11:49:59.121+01:002016-08-29T11:49:59.121+01:00The problem with DT's otherwise attractive pro...The problem with DT's otherwise attractive proposal is that Anglo-Catholicism was profoundly influenced by the liturgical changes of the modern era with the consequence that many of the priests and people in the Ordinariate have no feel for or experience of traditional liturgy. As was apparent in our Forward in Faith Masses, 'modern Roman' was the thing to be. Although I've no dunstanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14627891322038238469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33639903360261485592016-08-28T19:35:58.727+01:002016-08-28T19:35:58.727+01:00Charles:
They may have had domestic obligations t...Charles:<br /><br />They may have had domestic obligations to consider.Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-27716992889076183332016-08-28T16:31:17.763+01:002016-08-28T16:31:17.763+01:00I know nothing about the Ordinariate, and I must a...I know nothing about the Ordinariate, and I must admit, as a lay Catholic, I was just a tiny bit startled by the revelation that there are in existence a number of Anglican ministers whose route to conversion to the true Faith is based on their pension date. Of course it is commendable that they (and their families if they have them) do not wish to be a financial charge on the Church. But what Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-50075374282174561852016-08-28T13:47:23.762+01:002016-08-28T13:47:23.762+01:00Might it be, that if the Ordinariate were given a ...Might it be, that if the Ordinariate were given a church & presbytery of their own [not as lodgers as it were] the quality of their worship would become known and spread abroad, thereby attracting congregants. But there is the rub. I quote a diocesan bishop's refusal to havv a Traditional Order take-over an iconic church - " ..it would attract congregants from other parishes",Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-43843076056158055882016-08-28T02:37:17.229+01:002016-08-28T02:37:17.229+01:00don't you dare fade away Fatherdon't you dare fade away FatherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49297359248838009692016-08-28T00:41:25.797+01:002016-08-28T00:41:25.797+01:00As the priesthood declines the attitude of the “Ca...As the priesthood declines the attitude of the “Catholic system” will change. I'd go to an Ordinariate Mass if one were closer. <br /><br />Couldn't agree more that any priest in any English speaking land should be free to say the Ordinariate Mass. That is so obvious. Equally, Ordinariate priests might also say the Gregorian Mass. It's as much your Mass as any other Western Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45927111624052586482016-08-28T00:38:58.914+01:002016-08-28T00:38:58.914+01:00An earlier commenter mentioned how Canadian Anglic...An earlier commenter mentioned how Canadian Anglicanism was substantially the work of Church of Ireland and Evangelical minded clergy. I would think that Anglo-Catholicism and the Ordinariate would be utterly alien to the Church of Ireland. Perhaps the need to be clearly demarcated from Catholicism meant Anglo-Catholicism never took root in Ireland, except in respect of some artistic influence. Prayerfulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01561992635589480308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-91869080560203954012016-08-27T19:10:02.567+01:002016-08-27T19:10:02.567+01:00Dear Father,
I’m sure you don’t remember me but I...Dear Father,<br /><br />I’m sure you don’t remember me but I have fond memories of meeting you on two occasions when you visited Our Lady of the Atonement (OLA) in San Antonio, of which I am a founding member. (http://church.atonementonline.com/ . As you know, we began in 1983 with no more than fifty individual members and have grown to slightly less than one thousand families. Our school is Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17384546784424640486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-19177734200841652882016-08-27T19:07:11.424+01:002016-08-27T19:07:11.424+01:00The archdiocese in which I live (USA) at present w...The archdiocese in which I live (USA) at present was thoroughly hostile to the idea of the ordinariate and did its best to stifle the infant in its cradle. There were, admittedly, very few interested laity. But the clergy were put off by deep hostility to the idea of married priests from the chancery. One priest renounced his Episcopalian orders, converted through RCIA (which should not have beenaustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05353043674005221535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-89406354282507423882016-08-27T18:50:40.636+01:002016-08-27T18:50:40.636+01:00As a Texan, I have no first hand knowledge of the ...As a Texan, I have no first hand knowledge of the Ordinariate situation in the UK, so cannot add anything directly on point. However, as one who lived under the Anglican Usage/Pastoral Provision regime, as a layman, of course, I would be surprised if the bulk of the E&W bishops did not have the same attitudes towards the Ordinariate that we saw so often in the US under the AU, namely that theWoodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08910654300435533408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39888426147833360022016-08-27T17:30:48.098+01:002016-08-27T17:30:48.098+01:00The Ordinariate in the diocese of Hallam (Sheffiel...The Ordinariate in the diocese of Hallam (Sheffield & environs) now has a weekly, weekday, Mass in the Cathedral.The congregation is tiny so far- never more than 10-but that's no worse than the Traditional Mass used to attract and several of the people attending, myself included, are 'ordinary' Catholics. <br />One hurdle to overcome is the gross ignorance of lay Catholics. I was Celiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604937234890307888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-40173025875664390542016-08-27T16:45:43.703+01:002016-08-27T16:45:43.703+01:00Just a note from across the pond.
Our very mode...Just a note from across the pond. <br /><br />Our very modest success in attracting Anglicans to the Ordinariate in Canada is not due to the buildings that they cannot bring. Rather, in our case it is due to four decades of relentless liberal erosion of Catholic faith in a Anglican dioceses led by secularist 'sea of faith' bishops. Anglo-Catholic (much less Anglo-Papist) practice and peregrinustohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15669515867797692879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-48319661664384462722016-08-27T16:24:28.184+01:002016-08-27T16:24:28.184+01:00There exist more than two open-minded bishops,thou...There exist more than two open-minded bishops,though they might only be counted upon one hand. It is a disgrace that parishes are to be closed throughout E&W, but few bishops appear to have the imagination to call upon ICkSP, FSSP, or The Ordinariate for assistance. Their entrenched ecumenism does not extend that far. Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84638366263912559092016-08-27T15:37:24.918+01:002016-08-27T15:37:24.918+01:00For the record, I do not think Fr H is anyone'...For the record, I do not think Fr H is anyone's patsy. All I meant was that Fr H is mistaken. As it happens I know a lot more about the goings on leading up to Anglicanorum coetibus than he realises. But this is not about who thinks he knows more. It is about reviewing where the Ordinariate is and how it can best realise its mission. I for one would live to see Solemn Mass celebrated Cherubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10998294374027724557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-42618538690291704202016-08-27T15:19:57.741+01:002016-08-27T15:19:57.741+01:00I think I take exception to the suggestion that &q...I think I take exception to the suggestion that "of course Fr H will..." etc. etc.. I thought I had been rather brutally frank and "confronting" about a number of problems that DT seemed not even to be aware of; and I think I know rather more home truths than some other people about what it's really like in there.<br /><br />I would be surprised if regular readers of this Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-52118593324669195302016-08-27T15:05:40.117+01:002016-08-27T15:05:40.117+01:00If I may play Devil's Advocate ...
Let me pre...If I may play Devil's Advocate ...<br /><br />Let me preface my remarks by stating that I'm fully in sympathy with the Ordinariate. One of my sons attended Our Lady of Walsingham in HO (originally at my suggestion) when he lived there.<br /><br />However, as regards Anglican clergy who prefer to remain Anglican until they qualify for a pension, then expect to be welcomed with open arms mark wauckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12847411975641738898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-58371466555324301502016-08-27T14:24:56.424+01:002016-08-27T14:24:56.424+01:00Well I don't think DT is fairly categorised as...Well I don't think DT is fairly categorised as "poor old". In any case what he says seems to me to be more accurate than Fr Hunwicke allows. Now of course Fr H will defend the Ordinariate and even the Catholic bishops some of whose as individuals are very kind. But the truth is that generally they have not been all that welcome. And politically Bishop Hollis was never keen -indeedCherubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10998294374027724557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-69270691558073507872016-08-27T12:21:12.294+01:002016-08-27T12:21:12.294+01:00Many thanks Father.Many thanks Father.Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70287267648692465752016-08-27T11:30:05.318+01:002016-08-27T11:30:05.318+01:00The main issue is the very disappointing response ...The main issue is the very disappointing response (an understatement) from Anglican Catholic-minded laity. Pope Benedict thought he was offering the best of all possible worlds: solid doctrine, (assuredly) valid orders, excellent inculturated liturgy and above all Englishness (never Fr. -- or indeed Bishop -- Fintan O'Shaughnessy's strong point).<br /><br />Enough Anglican clergy came Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13769697942265014482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-702000781549184272016-08-27T11:20:44.548+01:002016-08-27T11:20:44.548+01:00The truth hurts. I, for one, am glad and grateful...The truth hurts. I, for one, am glad and grateful that DT has publicly articulated what a lot of Ordinariate people (lay and clergy) have been saying privately for some time. Let us hope that this article, which hits a number of nails squarely on the head, encourages some healthy and fruitful debate about the current state (and future) of the UK Ordinariate.Fr David Prichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17402713012531328552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-22041716357255745802016-08-27T11:16:10.286+01:002016-08-27T11:16:10.286+01:00It has long been my opinion that part of the hosti...<br />It has long been my opinion that part of the hostility of the "parson's egg" bench of English RC bishops to the Ordinariate is their fear of the Anglican intellectual tradition.vetusta ecclesiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454059029260192711noreply@blogger.com