tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post1587439887323053784..comments2024-03-29T09:39:50.604+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: For Classicists onlyFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-65988862601092577242020-12-08T04:21:04.178+00:002020-12-08T04:21:04.178+00:00You can pick up a lot of mispronunciation if you a...You can pick up a lot of mispronunciation if you are a bookish introvert who prefers reading to conversing. I myself only learnt the correct pronunciation of 'egregious' from Captain Jack Sparrow. If a pirate has standards, so must we.<br />Grant Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381331872077276383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-48838160277798342812020-12-08T04:04:03.759+00:002020-12-08T04:04:03.759+00:00'And Yeshua said "Render unto Kaisar that...'And Yeshua said "Render unto Kaisar that which is Kaisar's.' I suppose one can get too pedantic. I myself am very inconsistent in this respect: I say SAA-mo-a and carefully pronounce the 'okina in Hawai'i, but otherwise accept numerous anglicized pronunciations. <br />Grant Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381331872077276383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-21987017931654738092020-12-07T11:13:51.623+00:002020-12-07T11:13:51.623+00:00I suspect that the theory of Latin contamination i...I suspect that the theory of Latin contamination is correct, given that more people know Latin (though sadly their number is declining) than Greek. I am one of them, with passable Latin for someone who read history, but only a smattering of Greek - a deficiency which I hope to remedy at some stage.<br /><br /> Classical languages are under siege from both sides: the utilitarian Philistines who PMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144651697262763099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-25389855230372838452020-12-07T09:47:52.492+00:002020-12-07T09:47:52.492+00:00My knowledge of the Greek myths being drawn from h...My knowledge of the Greek myths being drawn from happy childhood days reading retellings thereof in my primary school library, I never guessed that Perseus was disyllabic.<br /><br />This evening I read the famous poetical essay about death by Beilby Porteus - two syllables?Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55991256993635712852020-12-06T22:32:11.096+00:002020-12-06T22:32:11.096+00:00I get irritated by people who pronounce Samoa as S...I get irritated by people who pronounce Samoa as Se-MOW-a rather than SAA-mo-a, but I see that Wikipedia gives the former pronunciation as the anglicized pronunciation of the nation. So I have to accept that, just as one accepts that it is standard to say PArriss in English but ParEE in French.<br />Grant Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381331872077276383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1954524864808676912020-12-06T22:23:34.018+00:002020-12-06T22:23:34.018+00:00But Pope Benedict says "Dee-us" and &quo...But Pope Benedict says "Dee-us" and "Cree-do".wonastowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11180184746864757704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46129666772223238222020-12-06T21:15:30.983+00:002020-12-06T21:15:30.983+00:00An extreme case of a little Latin being a dangerou...An extreme case of a little Latin being a dangerous thing is the pronunciation of "via" as "weir".Oliver Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187098939500953848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-25617608182706087582020-12-06T17:18:34.954+00:002020-12-06T17:18:34.954+00:00This has been a most enjoyable thread. We happy fe...This has been a most enjoyable thread. We happy few... Why do some clever fellows pronounce "Munich" as though it's a German word? Why do we now miss off the final "s" from Marseilles and Lyons? (It started when we pretended to be Europeans). And why...Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04264379572686048595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-7668851145530071632020-12-06T15:57:40.106+00:002020-12-06T15:57:40.106+00:00Because they've done a bit of Latin ... just a...Because they've done a bit of Latin ... just as people who've done a bit of German (or Greek) say trowmata instead of trawmata.Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33049308801951579522020-12-06T15:11:01.173+00:002020-12-06T15:11:01.173+00:00.... but why do people rhyme "Deity" wit....... but why do people rhyme "Deity" with "laity"?wonastowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11180184746864757704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-79527135449795813892020-12-06T13:00:54.837+00:002020-12-06T13:00:54.837+00:00I was first introduced to Odysseus at the age of e...I was first introduced to Odysseus at the age of eight years through the retelling of Barbara Leonie Picard, and learnt to say his name with four syllables. Some years later I graduated to Rieu's translation of the Odyssey and learnt with dismay from his introduction that I had been pronouncing the name all wrong: it had three syllables. But by then the habit was ingrained and I couldn't Grant Milburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381331872077276383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75027377529591129162020-12-06T09:32:09.547+00:002020-12-06T09:32:09.547+00:00The late Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, having started ...The late Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, having started out as a tearaway modernist in the 1960s, made a similar point about music in his final years. Having taught working-class boys in a state school in Lancashire finding Palestrina motets in the early 1960s, he bridled at politically correct suggestions that this was an elitist art form.PMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144651697262763099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30780005667867248282020-12-06T00:46:08.909+00:002020-12-06T00:46:08.909+00:00Dear Fr. Hunwicke. This Article concurs with the B...Dear Fr. Hunwicke. This Article concurs with the BBC's lamentable pronunciation of anything other than “Yoof Talk. Innit ?” <br /><br />I recently heard one BBC Meeja Chappess pronounce the Welsh Town, Llanelli, as “LANELLY” !!!Zephyrinushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01179350648709554049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-61987996637196078402020-12-05T21:27:10.686+00:002020-12-05T21:27:10.686+00:00Dear Scribe
As a mere paedagogue, I would have an...Dear Scribe<br /><br />As a mere paedagogue, I would have an interest in the kiddies' pronunciation being such as to assist, not to sabotage, their task of learning how to scan.Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-87152343131494031112020-12-05T19:56:08.455+00:002020-12-05T19:56:08.455+00:00As to item (2): this isn’t helped by the fact that...As to item (2): this isn’t helped by the fact that most hymnals translate the relevant line of <i>Corde natus</i> as “He is Alpha and Omega”, where (as sung) the stress falls very heavily on the <i>e</i> of “Omega”. The EH tradition does a better job, putting “Alpha” and “Omega” into separate couplets, with the stress in the correct place.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-83994503478935797912020-12-05T19:42:20.579+00:002020-12-05T19:42:20.579+00:00By one of those strange coincidences, it was only ...By one of those strange coincidences, it was only yesterday that I became aware of this variation in pronunciation, when for some reason I looked at the Wikipedia article on Theseus. There, the pronunciation is given as follows:<br />UK: /ˈθiːsjuːs/, US: /ˈθiːsiəs/<br />that is to say, the pronunciation which you deprecate is stated as being specifically a US variant.<br /><br />So it would be Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-47860584845293822002020-12-05T16:40:11.830+00:002020-12-05T16:40:11.830+00:00Two syllables for "-eus" in Odysseus see...Two syllables for "-eus" in Odysseus seems to be the accepted pronounciation in English these days. Here's a collection of recordings of twenty scholars and Oxbridge students speaking of Odyddeus. <br /><br /><a href="https://youglish.com/pronounce/odysseus/english/uk" rel="nofollow">https://youglish.com/pronounce/odysseus/english/uk</a>Jhayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07064136312272621107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1322084141189423392020-12-05T14:52:09.398+00:002020-12-05T14:52:09.398+00:00It is gratifying to note that the ancients are not...It is gratifying to note that the ancients are not the only ones who run the two vowel sounds in the diphthong -eu- together and do not pronounce them as two distinct syllables. In Portuguese, the word for God, "Deus", is just one syllable, and foreigners are immediately recognized when they attempt to give it two syllables.<br /><br />In Romanian, the word for God is also "Deus&frjustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10109539584303934489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-16560652879396627912020-12-05T14:45:41.811+00:002020-12-05T14:45:41.811+00:00I have studied both Latin and Greek, in that order...I have studied both Latin and Greek, in that order, and would never dare call myself a classicist but I have a thought.<br /><br />If most students of the Classics begin, as I have, with Latin, where <i>-eus</i> is double syllabled, as in <i>Deus</i>, might this habit not have migrated into the way they pronounce the language of the Hellenes?<br /><br />OreamnosAmericanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602268350813211243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-25573704815341796412020-12-05T13:54:34.564+00:002020-12-05T13:54:34.564+00:00Well, I'm 68, so go back a fair way, and have ...Well, I'm 68, so go back a fair way, and have always pronounced the -eus names as disyllables - in fact, till reading your post, I didn't realise there was any other way of pronouncing them! (Though you're quite correct - <i>Zeus</i> is always monosyllabic (/zju:s/ in IPA). <br /><br />You're almost certainly correct in assuming that it's because we follow the spelling. In Sue Simshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05976537787708670241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-58948016558063567442020-12-05T13:10:58.217+00:002020-12-05T13:10:58.217+00:00Dear Father, I think the problem arises from the v...Dear Father, I think the problem arises from the virtual disappearance of Greek from most state schools. Confronted with names like Perseus, most people assume that they must be Latin, and pronounce them accordingly. When I was at my grammar school in Liverpool (1946-54), we had occasional visits from a prominent Greek businessman, who would enthral us by declaiming passages in Greek from the Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04264379572686048595noreply@blogger.com