tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post9002882669093243503..comments2024-03-29T09:39:50.604+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Mass in Greek at S DenysFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-66341245912281985232015-06-28T19:45:21.326+01:002015-06-28T19:45:21.326+01:00My not so educated guess is that it was the Franki...My not so educated guess is that it was the Frankish answer to Constantinople. Since the Carolingian empire asserted to be the rightly successor of the Romans, they wanted to impress the world with their claim of universal dominion. Hence, they added a translation of the Roman Mass in Greek, including the Filioque, which the Carolingian theologians greatly favored. bedwerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339741971886945010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20412431696303786762015-06-28T10:06:23.702+01:002015-06-28T10:06:23.702+01:00It is said that St Denys, or Denis (Dionysius), wa...It is said that St Denys, or Denis (Dionysius), was the first Bishop of Paris; when he was martyred by being decapitated at present-day Montmartyre ("the hill of the martyr"), his headless body stood up, picked up his head and walked off, his mouth preaching as he went, until reaching the site of the present Abbey of S.-Denys, thus signalling to the faithful where the saint's relicsJoshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46342388614140366582015-06-28T09:41:18.480+01:002015-06-28T09:41:18.480+01:00Very interesting. Many saints must have originated...Very interesting. Many saints must have originated from Greece - why was Saint Denis celebrated in Greek, and none other? I would love to hear some of the reasons given in the booklet, if Joshua doesn't mind telling.Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983955289507752980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-14450545092883004742015-06-28T02:51:56.512+01:002015-06-28T02:51:56.512+01:00And finally, the Sequence:
Sequence
Ἑλλὰς, ἐν τέ...And finally, the Sequence:<br /><br />Sequence<br /><br />Ἑλλὰς, ἐν τέκνῳ χαῖρε· Γαλλία περίσσευε Ἐν πατρὶ Διονύσῳ.<br />Ἀγαλλιάσθω πλέον Παρίσιος, εὐσχήμων Ὁσίου τῷ θανάτῳ.<br />Χαρὰν μέιζονα χαίρῃ Εὐδάιμων συνουσίη Μαρτύρων παρουσίᾳ.<br />Ἐφ’ ὧν συνηγορίῃ Πᾶσα καυχᾶται χώρη, Ἀρχῆς ἐστιν οὐσία.<br />Πρὸς γονῆα κείμε νοι Στρατιῶται δόκιμοι Μνήμης λάχον ἄξια.<br />Ἀλλὰ τουτονὶ πάντως Σέβεται Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-8153186879905098682015-06-27T23:50:05.112+01:002015-06-27T23:50:05.112+01:00This is an area to tread carefully.
Last I read, ...This is an area to tread carefully.<br /><br />Last I read, (perhaps Father could enlighten us on this point), the Creed has been read in Greek at Rome for centuries, and it never contains the filioque. And there may be good reason for it--I am given to understand procedit does not imply procession from an ultimate source, whereas ἐκπορευόμενον does, which is why the Greeks find it objectionable.Claudio Salvuccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08831694822879009083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-74694082266242141882015-06-27T14:46:53.496+01:002015-06-27T14:46:53.496+01:00Except that in the Creed the eastern phrase by the...Except that in the Creed the eastern phrase <i>by the holy spirit and the virgin mary</i> is kept rather than the western <i>by the holy spirit of the virgin mary</i>Dane Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14821085777130984984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3240044067358034862015-06-27T13:15:07.866+01:002015-06-27T13:15:07.866+01:00Indeed it is. The Greek text is modelled on the La...Indeed it is. The Greek text is modelled on the Latin - from the Gloria Patri onwards.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67314940470254806592015-06-27T12:02:43.260+01:002015-06-27T12:02:43.260+01:00Interesting to see the line in the Creed:
"Κ...Interesting to see the line in the Creed:<br /><br />"Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ Κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρός τε καὶ ἐκ τοῦ Υἱοῦ ἐκπορευόμενον."<br /><br />That looks rather like a Greek filioque to me.The Moderate Jacobitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02643594581501536867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-76725331045714631042015-06-27T11:56:31.291+01:002015-06-27T11:56:31.291+01:00SInce my knowledge of Greek is restricted to the l...SInce my knowledge of Greek is restricted to the laborious typing out of texts, and the odd glance into the Greek Liturgies, the LXX and the Greek NT (the latter a a useful crib to the Latin Vulgate, as Mgr Knox noted), on the strength of my use of a Greek dictionary and various internet resources to look up words and a few lessons from Wenham's <i>The Elements of NT Greek</i>, before the Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-29462900550965438222015-06-27T11:47:19.481+01:002015-06-27T11:47:19.481+01:00PROPER OF THE MASS OF ST DENYS
Introit (Eccli. 44...PROPER OF THE MASS OF ST DENYS<br /><br />Introit (Eccli. 44. 15. & 14. Ps. 32. 1.)<br /><br />Σοφίαν τῶν ἁγίων διηγήσονται λαοὶ, καὶ ἔπαινους αὐτῶν ἐξαγγελλεῖ ἐκκλησία· τὰ δ’ὄνόματ’ αὐτῶν ζήσεται εἰς αἰῶνα αἰῶνος.<br />᾿Αγαλλιᾶσθε δίκαιοι ἐν τῷ Κυρίῳ· τοῖς εὐθέσι πρέπει αἴνεσις.<br /><br />Collect<br /><br />Σκέψαιεν ἡμᾶς, Κύριε, πάλιν τελούμενα τὰ τής ἱερᾶς τῶν μακαρίων Διονυσίου, ῬουστικοῦJoshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45309648089654942762015-06-27T00:39:58.712+01:002015-06-27T00:39:58.712+01:00I am particularly taken by the Greek translation u...I am particularly taken by the Greek translation used at the Abbey of <i>O salutaris Hostia</i>, which was sung in France, at the Elevation of the Host, according to the wish of King Louis XII:<br /><br />Ὦ σωτηρία θυσία, <br />Ἀνοίγουσα τὸν οὐρανὸν, <br />Ἐχθρῶν ἐπάγει στρατία· <br />Δὸς ῥώμην, καὶ βοήθησον.<br /><br />Would it be alright to sing this at Benediction? It fits the metre and thus Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23572334011075389492015-06-27T00:36:54.241+01:002015-06-27T00:36:54.241+01:00THE ORDINARY OF THE ROMAN MASS IN GREEK - Part 2
...THE ORDINARY OF THE ROMAN MASS IN GREEK - Part 2<br /><br />Dominus vobiscum… Oremus<br /><br />Κύριος μεθ’ ὑμῶν.<br />Καὶ μετὰ πνεύματός σου.<br />Προσευχώμεθα.<br /><br />Offertory<br /><br />Per omnia sæcula sæculorum<br /><br />Εἰς πάντας τοὺς ἀιῶνας τῶν ἀιώνων. <br />Ἀμήν.<br /><br />Sursum corda<br /><br />Κύριος μεθ’ ὑμῶν.<br />Καὶ μετὰ πνεύματός σου.<br />Ἄνωσχῶμεν σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας.<br Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-25206756126051948542015-06-27T00:36:15.469+01:002015-06-27T00:36:15.469+01:00THE ORDINARY OF THE ROMAN MASS IN GREEK - Part 1
...THE ORDINARY OF THE ROMAN MASS IN GREEK - Part 1<br /><br />Introit<br /><br />Gloria Patri<br /><br />Δόξα τῷ Πατρὶ, καὶ τῷ Ὑιῷ, καὶ τῷ ἁγίῳ Πνεύματι, ὡς ἧν ἐν ἀρχῃ, καὶ νὺν, καὶ ἀεὶ, καὶ εἰς τοὺς ἀιῶνᾶς τῶν ἀιῶνων. Ἀμήν.<br /><br />Kyrie<br /><br />Κύριε, ἐλέησον. Κύριε, ἐλέησον. Κύριε, ἐλέησον.<br />Χριστὲ, ἐλέησον. Χριστὲ, ἐλέησον. Χριστὲ, ἐλέησον.<br />Κύριε, ἐλέησον. Κύριε, ἐλέησον. Κύριε, Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-56078915606624382792015-06-27T00:34:02.090+01:002015-06-27T00:34:02.090+01:00I found the following booklet online yesterday, wh...I found the following booklet online yesterday, whilst searching for occurrences of Dumont's plainchant Masses: it contains the Mass of St Denys, with the parts chanted aloud entirely in Greek, as was it was celebrated on the Octave Day of his feast at the Royal Abbey of St Denys until the French Revolution's enormities put a stop to divine worship. Sadly, this practice (which arose, moreJoshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.com