tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post8384602545923172622..comments2024-03-28T23:52:48.762+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: SSPX chapels? UPDATEDFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-57252481791609379772016-04-08T02:06:24.329+01:002016-04-08T02:06:24.329+01:00I completely agree!!!I completely agree!!!Fe Hispana Tradicionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00576860341603144183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-81851251499481375012016-04-05T17:23:09.120+01:002016-04-05T17:23:09.120+01:00A late comment that might be useful; a book attack...A late comment that might be useful; a book attacking sedevacantism was recently put out with the endorsement of Bp. Fellay and a nuber of other SSPX clerics (see here: http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/endorsements.html). You might find it useful in dealing with sedevacantists.John Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12689601844788629693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-57163938174943070122016-04-02T17:09:51.332+01:002016-04-02T17:09:51.332+01:00I'm getting a little confused: at a time when ...I'm getting a little confused: at a time when S John Paul II was the only claimant to the See of S Peter, anyone who prayed for "pontifex noster" or for "Famulus tuus quem pastorem Ecclesiae tuae praeesse voluisti" can, surely, only have thought he was praying for the Polish gentleman, even though he might not have mentioned a name.<br /><br />I think it says a lot for theFr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70042866147340183382016-04-02T13:38:31.945+01:002016-04-02T13:38:31.945+01:00Things have clearly changed from the time I freque...Things have clearly changed from the time I frequented the $$PX (Septuagesima Sunday 1988 to Wednesday in Holy Week 1991). The Superior then was Fr. Black. In the Litany at the XL Hours etc Fr. Black would sing John Paul's name in the appointed place. I cannot recall the occasion or the celebrant but in one Office the bishop had to be named and the name used was Marcel not Basil. Two of Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-50844815463839918602016-04-02T06:23:25.067+01:002016-04-02T06:23:25.067+01:00My SSPX chapel in Portland, OR, has a photo of Pop...My SSPX chapel in Portland, OR, has a photo of Pope Francis prominently placed at both the main entrance and the side entrance which is used a lot. When our current archbishop, Alexander Sample, was named, my young pastor immediately sought an audience to welcome him, and was received. The locally sanctioned EF Mass was quickly moved up by the archbishop a couple of hours, perhaps to coincide Mary Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15177771196355631149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-54995925092197698862016-04-02T04:00:19.610+01:002016-04-02T04:00:19.610+01:00Yes, the question of the Nine’s sedevacantism is a...Yes, the question of the Nine’s sedevacantism is a bit of an aside as I now realize. It was about the liturgy, with which I fully sympathize, and about control of the SSPX. The inage Fr. Cekada paints is very unlike the one given by others who knew the archbishop. I’m not even sure they are sedevacantists properly speaking, but at any rate all nine definitively turned against the papacy after Matthew Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00958673318312786618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-68051748520786507472016-04-01T16:31:17.412+01:002016-04-01T16:31:17.412+01:00Surely it cannot be sedevacantism per se to hold t...Surely it cannot be sedevacantism per se to hold the belief that Francis (Bergoglio) is not the true pope, and that Benedict (Ratzinger) remains the true pope? Assuming, arguendo, that his abdication was the result of duress exerted by others, then it was certainly invalid, and hence, etc., etc. He denies that any such distress was involved. However, we are all well aware of examples from other Paul Goingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06479425203740052841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70044346881910048172016-04-01T15:39:28.848+01:002016-04-01T15:39:28.848+01:00In Bishop Fellay's statement there are two pas...In Bishop Fellay's statement there are two passages that, IMO, shed quite a bit of light.<br /><br />1. "Msgr. Pozzo explained how this full communion can come about: by the acceptance of the canonical form, which is rather surprising: the idea that a canonical form would resolve all the problems with communion!"<br /><br />2. "... he says that this full communion consists of mark wauckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12847411975641738898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30600692709478760652016-04-01T15:13:56.604+01:002016-04-01T15:13:56.604+01:00The Magister article I just linked has a link to B...The Magister article I just linked has a link to <a href="http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica.html" rel="nofollow">Benedict's Remission of the Excommunication of the Four Bishops of SSPX</a>. Benedict's letter is really most interesting reading, and raises a host of questions. For example:<br /><br />1. "mark wauckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12847411975641738898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-63623182334855576932016-04-01T14:47:28.285+01:002016-04-01T14:47:28.285+01:00Highly relevant, via Sandro Magister:
“Francis al...Highly relevant, via Sandro Magister:<br /><br /><a href="http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1351262?eng=y" rel="nofollow">“Francis alarms us enormously, and not only us. And yet we like him”</a><br /><br /><i>The surprising analysis of the Francis enigma, made by the superior general by the Society of Saint Pius X, Bernard Fellay. With the account of the visits of one cardinal and mark wauckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12847411975641738898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-89680259613799617272016-03-31T19:18:48.763+01:002016-03-31T19:18:48.763+01:00Dear William
I, too, have often laughed at that n...Dear William<br /><br />I, too, have often laughed at that neat old story about Archbishop Amigo. But I do wonder who, logically, gets the last laugh. A bishop cannot suspend someone who is not one of his clergy. So a logical prerequisite to his act of suspension must have been acceptance both of the validity of that priest's ordination and of his possession of a missio canonica in the Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-89493606108158034852016-03-31T15:35:17.783+01:002016-03-31T15:35:17.783+01:00Tony V said:
"as far as I can tell both pope...Tony V said:<br /><br />"as far as I can tell both pope and bishop are included in the canon"<br /><br />The same here in the U.S. where I have been assisting at SSPX Masses since 1991.<br /><br />ANOTHER<br />NEW<br />FORT<br /><br />Such names they call us<br />That's not what we are<br />We are Roman Catholics<br />At the front of the war.<br /><br />Some just go AWOL<br />OthersLong-Skirtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00791967605782446951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-53507027612185376572016-03-31T13:55:56.717+01:002016-03-31T13:55:56.717+01:00There is a story of Bishop Amigo of Southwark bein...There is a story of Bishop Amigo of Southwark being stopped in the street by a high-church Anglican priest, who said "My Lord, I pray for you every day at Mass, I believe you are my rightful bishop, and in my parish we obey all your rulings and read your pastoral letters (etc.)". To which Amigo replied, "In that case, I hereby suspend you. Good day, sir."<br /><br />Can Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-4405890246344558832016-03-31T13:43:10.542+01:002016-03-31T13:43:10.542+01:00"Why is it said secretly in the Canon of Rome...<br />"Why is it said secretly in the Canon of Rome, I wonder? A vestige of the days in the catacombs perhaps, or a call to remember those frightful times?"<br /><br />I doubt it has anything to do with the catacombs, or recalling those times. Rather, it seems one aspect of the question of why and when the whole Roman Canon came to be said silently, or, rather, sotto voce. I don'tWilliam Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-68415205551925309972016-03-31T04:03:18.016+01:002016-03-31T04:03:18.016+01:00One must ask; attachment to the visible Church inc...One must ask; attachment to the visible Church incarnate is the hallmark. I believe Orthodox priests can only conduct the Divine Liturgy if they have, as it were, their "papers", i.e.proof for other clerics review and for us hoi polloi as well to review, identifying who ordained them and thus their operative level of incardination and attachment to A particular hierarch (all that is Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833345391579579562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-91016413588352382002016-03-30T22:27:02.040+01:002016-03-30T22:27:02.040+01:00On Feria VI in Parasceve, on occasion of the (post...On Feria VI in Parasceve, on occasion of the (post 1955) Missa Praesanctificatorum, at the chapel here in Germany where I usually attend the Holy Mass (together with my entire family, by the way) the priest clara voce mentioned Francisco and our local diocesan bishop in the respective intercessional prayer, and I guess also at any other FSSPX chapel in any country both names were clearly audible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70121921971473114042016-03-30T20:32:33.544+01:002016-03-30T20:32:33.544+01:00I'm lucky to live just a short walk away from ...I'm lucky to live just a short walk away from a SSPX chapel.<br />I always attend my parish church on Sundays (with the family), but time permitting I'm not averse to attending the SSPX chapel as well. Likewise on the odd non-Sunday Mass they might have (eg, St Joseph's day, or whatever).<br /><br />Although the homily may refer to 'the crisis in the church' (crisis? what Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-59725360585086371162016-03-30T20:14:03.933+01:002016-03-30T20:14:03.933+01:00In addition to John L's comments, above, may I...In addition to John L's comments, above, may I add that having been (in the past) a regular Master of Ceremonies at sung masses celebrated by SSPX priests and bishops, I had never once had an occasion to think that the reigning Pope's name, nor that of the local bishop, had been deliberately omitted from their place in the Canon.<br /><br />As many of your readers will know, the MC at a Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13148987829692643224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-15502052143624974882016-03-30T19:39:39.539+01:002016-03-30T19:39:39.539+01:00
I think the suggestion that Mgr Gilbey was a sede...<br />I think the suggestion that Mgr Gilbey was a sedevacantist is outrageous and totally without substance. I knew Mgr Gilbey well enough to confidently dismiss this as scurrilous. I was often present at his celebration of Mass, he was present at my first Mass and he was also regularly present in the sanctuary at many many Masses at which the celebrant certainly named the reigning pontiff.Mgr Andrew Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12821521091262543139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33311967447483836422016-03-30T18:53:39.463+01:002016-03-30T18:53:39.463+01:00@Tarquinius - If someone does not recognise the cu...@Tarquinius - If someone does not recognise the current "man in white" as the legitimate Pope, there are two other options: 1) they recognise someone else as the real Pope, in which case who? 2) they think that there is no authentic Pope just now, in other words they are a sedevacantist. Apart from a couple of extremely dodgy and plainly unhinged individuals, I don't know of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-46732461778805757342016-03-30T18:19:07.509+01:002016-03-30T18:19:07.509+01:00Just to emphasize what John L said.... Having att...Just to emphasize what John L said.... Having attended mass at SSPX for my entire life, every priest I have come into contact with acknowledge the current Pontiff. The Pope and the local ordinary are said in the canon of the mass (I have personally heard this on many many occasions as an alter server). I think most of the sedevecantism that is rumored comes from laity that float in and out of Mountain Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14165139759761957330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1761637600557961982016-03-30T16:40:50.459+01:002016-03-30T16:40:50.459+01:00Pope Francis is mentioned in the canon of the mass...Pope Francis is mentioned in the canon of the mass at every SSPX mass, and his picture is normally displayed in SSPX chapels (it is in mine). Sedevacantism was rejected by Abp. Lefebvre and it is not tolerated at all in the Society. If any signs of it are manifested by a SSPX priest, the superior of the local district would be glad to hear about it. John Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12689601844788629693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-24907638464521242432016-03-30T16:24:43.301+01:002016-03-30T16:24:43.301+01:00The great Mgr Gilbey never mentioned pope John Pau...The great Mgr Gilbey never mentioned pope John Paul II in the Canon. Nor, when the collect was permitted, did he ever say Pro Papa, opting instead for Ecclesiae. The one time he DID say the collect Pro Papa (by accident) he conspicuously declined to mention the name of the reigning pope. I know this because a friend of mine, who knew Mgr Gilbey better than some, was present when this happened.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85338359840408013142016-03-30T12:40:36.719+01:002016-03-30T12:40:36.719+01:00Well, dear Father, does one slip into schism by so...Well, dear Father, does one slip into schism by something that could be, well, a liturgical lapsus linguae? Yes and no, I'd think, and St. Thomas (and his commentator Cajetan as well as the manualists, who all teach the same in the matter) sheds some light on the issue in Sth II-II, q. 39, a. 1. If one refuses communion with the Pope <i>as Pope</i>, then surely on is in the sorry state of Tarquiniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306860641737970883noreply@blogger.com