tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post814853028028204346..comments2024-03-29T14:32:13.886+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Queuing upFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31110267673624525532015-01-16T11:30:02.677+00:002015-01-16T11:30:02.677+00:00It is most certainly true that there were always s...It is most certainly true that there were always some Jews in Palestine. Many of their descendants are Hasidic or Mea Shearim or what the journalists call Ultra-Orthodox; and they are very anti-Zionist on principled reasons based on their understanding of Judaism. They are constantly bullied by the Zionist regime to do National Service in the Zionist Army. Being deeply devout, they feel very ill Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-74305999073395845272015-01-16T11:08:43.848+00:002015-01-16T11:08:43.848+00:00I wonder what the Jews are supposed to do. Palest...I wonder what the Jews are supposed to do. Palestine is where they originally came from; there were always some there and it does not seem unreasonable for them to want to return there in view of the treatment they have suffered elsewhere.<br /><br />Look at France - supposedly one of the most civilised countries on this earth - and I am a Francophile. They have the largest Jewish community in Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-33322512324182101052015-01-15T21:50:08.617+00:002015-01-15T21:50:08.617+00:00Patricius: I do not know where you live but to ta...Patricius: I do not know where you live but to talk of ostracism for critics of Zionism is just ridiculous in the UK. Here, particularly on the left, there are supporters of the Palestinians and critics of Israel and they tend to predominate in the discussion in the UK.<br /><br />It is a very mixed history with crimes committed on both sides but if you want to talk about genocide it is the Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-38298166149288826912015-01-15T21:21:33.105+00:002015-01-15T21:21:33.105+00:00The Jews are the chosen people of God.
What are w...<i>The Jews are the chosen people of God.</i><br /><br />What are we, chopped liver?<br /><br />Our First Pope taught differently:<br /><br />1st Peter:<br /><br />9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people, that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his admirable light.<br /><br />10 <b>Who in time past were not a Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879499915093940176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-43558794442082366682015-01-15T19:08:47.165+00:002015-01-15T19:08:47.165+00:00Nicolas Bellord: There is no problem with the use ...Nicolas Bellord: There is no problem with the use of the term "Zionist" as such. But there are certain phrases in which the word is used exclusively in a pejorative sense: "Zionist regime" (= Israeli Government) is one such, as is "Zionist entity" (= State of Israel). These phrases are widely used by those who are quite open about seeking to wipe the state of Israel Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13781776242168427866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-47808778409046192802015-01-15T19:07:42.803+00:002015-01-15T19:07:42.803+00:00Father,
A partition was decided on by the UN, wit...Father,<br /><br />A partition was decided on by the UN, with an overwhelming majority, so the principle was established. <br /><br />It was accepted by the Jewish parties except details (now decided), but rejected outright by the Arabs. The growing civil conflict ended with the invasion of the territory by Arab League Sates in 1947, contrary to the UN, with the intent of eliminating Jewish Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41702824517342763292015-01-15T16:52:45.366+00:002015-01-15T16:52:45.366+00:00The trouble is that there is a simple truth which ...The trouble is that there is a simple truth which is that everything is a great deal more complicated than one imagines. But surely Zionism refers to the desire to create a Jewish homeland and thus to describe the Israeli Government as Zionist does not seem inaccurate to me and whether one agrees or disagrees with Zionism to call someone Zionist is not an insult or anti-Semitic. Of course thereNicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3316530957269124272015-01-15T16:26:55.343+00:002015-01-15T16:26:55.343+00:00I suppose it's the cynical, very clever manipu...I suppose it's the cynical, very clever manipulation of modern history and the Holocaust industry that is to blame for the ostracism of people who question the legitimacy of a Jewish state and anybody who speaks out about Israeli acts of genocide.<br /><br />Israelis are the real Nazis.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85405025709784620022015-01-15T16:19:55.752+00:002015-01-15T16:19:55.752+00:00I had always thought that the UN 1947 plan for the...I had always thought that the UN 1947 plan for the area kept Jerusalem as an area distinct from both the Arab and the Jewish areas. I was only six at the time, so I suppose I have misremembered.<br /><br />I find the tone of some of these comments quite amazing. Must be all these pro-Israeli neocons one hears about.<br /><br />Yes ... I know ... don't bother to tell me ... I realise that Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-3887584924555110792015-01-15T15:08:22.137+00:002015-01-15T15:08:22.137+00:00One further point Father if I may.
The Jews are t...One further point Father if I may.<br /><br />The Jews are the chosen people of God. The Catholic Religion is the fulfilment of their Religion, which is why we call it Judeo-Christianity. <br /><br />Romans, Catholics, Protestants and of course atheists including the National Sozialistischen Partei, have treated them abominably, mainly because of the erroneous belief that they Crucified Christ Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-78830755355031376252015-01-15T13:45:55.748+00:002015-01-15T13:45:55.748+00:00Father, you may wish to avail yourself of the wond...Father, you may wish to avail yourself of the wonders of Google to inform yourself on the legal status of the "1967 boundaries" (by which I presume you mean the <i>pre</i>-1967 boundaries, i.e. the 1949 armistice lines which, <i>at the insistence of the Arab nations</i>, were specifically not defined as international borders.) The situation is by no means as clear-cut as you seem to Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13781776242168427866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-17024168828988941732015-01-15T13:10:53.139+00:002015-01-15T13:10:53.139+00:00Rich Leonardi, calling somebody with anti-Zionist ...Rich Leonardi, calling somebody with anti-Zionist views "anti-Semitic" is a cheap shot and so very much in the politically correct milieu. Maybe next time you comment you can call the eminent blog host a bigot, again without clear proofs, and spare us your air of superiority.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-88820522061932752842015-01-15T12:56:35.112+00:002015-01-15T12:56:35.112+00:00So the word Zionist is antisemitic? News to me. I ...So the word Zionist is antisemitic? News to me. I thought it was invented, and used of themselves, by the founders of that ideology. Antisemitic? I presume the word is used in its popular sense of anti-Jewish; a sense that puzzles me because the Arabs, too, are semites. But, leaving that aside, I wonder whether it occurs to the irascible commentators on this thread that if I had wanted to be Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85616359188192745732015-01-15T11:09:34.076+00:002015-01-15T11:09:34.076+00:00Surely there was a world of difference in the two ...Surely there was a world of difference in the two cases - Gaza and Charlie H. Israel was responding to violent aggression - rockets and infiltration by tunnels. Gaza has not learnt the lesson that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Whether Israel's response was disproportionate is a difficult question to answer. <br /><br />The disproportion in the casualties is Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-52041947893510716462015-01-15T10:13:16.904+00:002015-01-15T10:13:16.904+00:00Surely Father the difference is this viz. the Pari...Surely Father the difference is this viz. the Parisian attackers carried out their atrocities in the name of Islam, whereas the bombing of Gaza was done in the name of the nation-state of Israel i.e. not in the name of Judaism. Thus it is reasonable for Muslim MPs to denounce what has been carried out supposedly in their name and for Jewish MPs to not feel that need. Also there is surely a A Scottish Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07804659592276068554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-76819063489500858102015-01-15T02:07:52.059+00:002015-01-15T02:07:52.059+00:00Calling the Israeli government a ‘Zionist Regime’ ...<i>Calling the Israeli government a ‘Zionist Regime’ reveals the strange worldview that seems to be so common among Traditionalists.</i><br /><br />Let's call that "worldview" by its proper name: Antisemitism.Rich Leonardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01060538864273399240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-14826459809222832202015-01-15T00:32:24.166+00:002015-01-15T00:32:24.166+00:00Michael Leahy might like to explain to Palestinian...Michael Leahy might like to explain to Palestinians the justice in their expulsion from their ancestral homes in 1948.<br />Let us just note that a Muslim policeman defending the Charlie Hebdo staff (journalist would not be the right term) was killed and another protected customers in the grocery store. Now others of that faith condemn the killings.<br />There are also Israelis who try to defend Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09036933832060349206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-58732192908675295652015-01-14T23:48:08.552+00:002015-01-14T23:48:08.552+00:00I certainly have no objection to anyone's call...I certainly have no objection to anyone's calling the government of Syria a 'Baathist Regime,' even though I prefer Mr. Al-Asad to his enemies and consider his administration the closest thing that Syria has to a legitimate government.John H. Graneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07217298274393450604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84259235543308985352015-01-14T22:06:32.457+00:002015-01-14T22:06:32.457+00:00There should be a clear separation between discuss...There should be a clear separation between discussion of terrorists (Hamas, or al Qaeda in Paris) murdering civilians and governments defending against terrorists. The first should be unequivocally condemned, while the second urged to proceed with prudence and criticized when imprudent -- not minimizing the serious, often tragic, consequences of failures of prudence. <br /><br />The government Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-34697102517955429702015-01-14T21:34:17.790+00:002015-01-14T21:34:17.790+00:00I would be interested to read what actual words ou...I would be interested to read what actual words our Islamic MPs used. They may dissociate themselves from various things, but they cannot dissociate their religion any more than we can dissociate from any aspect of Catholicism.<br /><br />Then there is the question of definitions. The murderers of the “Paris Blasphemers” may or may not have been psychopaths, (whichever definition you use) but Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-40999406664284345722015-01-14T20:01:05.278+00:002015-01-14T20:01:05.278+00:00The inconsistency of approach does not go unnotice...The inconsistency of approach does not go unnoticed especially by unemployed young Muslims from the banlieues of Paris who, for whatever reason, find themselves turning to religion in a search for meaning to life. Moreover, the concern is that this double standard is the FIRST thing they notice ...Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31994996967793997052015-01-14T20:00:00.452+00:002015-01-14T20:00:00.452+00:00Fr Hunwicke, I suspect if the whole Middle East be...Fr Hunwicke, I suspect if the whole Middle East became a nuclear free zone, Israel wouldn't exist for long.<br /><br />Israel's borders were extended, in my understanding, because they beat the socks off an invasion on three different fronts and repelled the invaders, who had intended taking Israeli territory, in the process occupying some of the land of the invaders. This seems fair gameMichael Leahyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15044897013849386271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-71036384476933159562015-01-14T18:20:31.353+00:002015-01-14T18:20:31.353+00:00Dear Robert
I am very happy to confirm that I gre...Dear Robert<br /><br />I am very happy to confirm that I greatly desire a democratically elected Israeli government to be accepted .... nay rather, welcomed ... by all the other Middle Eastern nations, within her internationally legal (1967) boundaries. I would go further. I would love to see the whole Middle East, from Iran to Tel a viv, a nuclear free zone.<br /><br />I hope that clarifies Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84994183803872670072015-01-14T16:44:45.795+00:002015-01-14T16:44:45.795+00:00Calling the Israeli government a ‘Zionist Regime’ ...Calling the Israeli government a ‘Zionist Regime’ reveals the strange worldview that seems to be so common among Traditionalists. It is a blot on their record, including Father Hunwicke. It is also ironic in light of the warm invitation to visit the Vigil Mass of such people in the previous blog entry. How would a person, who wanted the democratically-elected Israeli government to be accepted, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01598628806966100663noreply@blogger.com