tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post7599676545378437982..comments2024-03-28T12:26:03.686+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Pastor in Valle Adurni ...Fr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-27893235076508898022010-06-28T22:13:07.381+01:002010-06-28T22:13:07.381+01:00Rem acu tetigisti!Rem acu tetigisti!Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30923275590390875232010-06-28T13:47:08.785+01:002010-06-28T13:47:08.785+01:00It's astonishing to me that RC clergy can rece...It's astonishing to me that RC clergy can receive 7 years of training and still be as ignorant as they often are.Figulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13549064050271896212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-80082129571379764372010-06-26T18:05:02.355+01:002010-06-26T18:05:02.355+01:00stjudeschurch, The CofE "seven years" si...stjudeschurch, The CofE "seven years" simply isn't comparable to the Catholic Church's seven years for its ordinands. 2 years doing a degree, one year learning how to plan Sunday School classes followed by four years in a parish going to occasional sessions where you reflect on your sins with the aid of a pebble or two simply doesn't count as "seven years training".Jacob Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435082163759225318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-28118667321489533342010-06-26T15:06:50.817+01:002010-06-26T15:06:50.817+01:00"The C of E can now afford neither to train c..."The C of E can now afford neither to train clergy nor to pay full-time clergy."<br /><br />Any doubt as to the latter contention should be dispelled by a quick look at this week's clergy posts advertised on the website of <i>Jezebel's Trumpet</i>. Part-time chaplaincies; house-for-duty posts; a priest-in-charge post at a half stipend; and (hooray!) one full stipend post – CanonWilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-18015162327554201502010-06-26T04:03:14.765+01:002010-06-26T04:03:14.765+01:00The Orthodox parallel is instructive: until standa...The Orthodox parallel is instructive: until standards of clerical formation were improved, the parish clergy, especially in rural parts, were essentially celebrants of the liturgy, only; they certainly didn't hear confessions - that was the role of monastic clergy, as was that of being a spiritual adviser (the "starets" or elder) - and didn't even preach, it being no doubt Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23069570345941016902010-06-26T03:58:38.679+01:002010-06-26T03:58:38.679+01:00Regarding the Irish priests mentioned above, the c...Regarding the Irish priests mentioned above, the case described is that of the "sacerdos simplex", who is ordained, and able to say Mass, but not given faculties to preach nor hear confessions: this was once commonly done in Ireland - why? to provide impecunious seminarians with an income (from Mass stipends) sufficient to pay for their board, lodging and further training at seminary.<Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90255820598362239922010-06-25T22:52:04.355+01:002010-06-25T22:52:04.355+01:00Picking up on Jesse's point: one of the side-e...Picking up on Jesse's point: one of the side-effects of people coming into ordained ministry later in life, often after having had high-powered jobs, is that they find it very hard to adjust to being treated as a junior underling by an incumbent who may actually be younger, and in general terms less experienced, than they are. (Equally, of course, the incumbent may feel highly insecure in Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-71260277250259391662010-06-25T22:30:38.056+01:002010-06-25T22:30:38.056+01:00Has the CofE ever provided more than three years o...Has the CofE <i>ever</i> provided more than three years of pre-ordination training? I'd be interested to know if it did, as I'm certainly not aware of it. And yet a maximum of three years was, once, sufficient to produce a clergy that was, in general, notably well educated theologically.<br /><br />Which leads me to suppose that the problem is not so much the length of training in itself Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010105719301587195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-70471868990028600492010-06-25T16:59:20.180+01:002010-06-25T16:59:20.180+01:00Your suggestion of ordaining "massing priests...Your suggestion of ordaining "massing priests" is interesting. I remember, some 20 years ago, an aged priest - then in his 90s - telling me that when he's been a young man in Ireland there had often been priests ordained who had not done the full training, who were then packed off to seminary to study Logic and the rest. Why? Perhaps the emergency of the First World War had davidforsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603145004197815827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-9946618473904745442010-06-25T16:53:35.353+01:002010-06-25T16:53:35.353+01:00For what it's worth, I'd say that a tenden...For what it's worth, I'd say that a tendency in recent decades to discourage young vocations is partly to blame. A young man sensing a call to the priesthood was (and is) regularly told to wait five years, get some "real world experience", and then see. The result is that he does an unrelated degree, starts a career and a family, and then, when he looks more plausible to a DDOJessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00104652633000677197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-82903850789697980462010-06-25T16:06:19.552+01:002010-06-25T16:06:19.552+01:00So that's seven years.So that's seven years.Alan Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720666223287087150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-53020779205093800422010-06-25T15:38:53.789+01:002010-06-25T15:38:53.789+01:00I was only including time at theological college. ...I was only including time at theological college. Some have read for degrees beforehand and some will do further study afterwards.<br /><br />In fact, it's now Initial Ministerial Education (IME), with years 1-3 being at college and 4-7 replacing C(ontinuing)ME (the former 'POTty training').Jacob Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435082163759225318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-47195336200127520412010-06-25T15:36:48.731+01:002010-06-25T15:36:48.731+01:00It's not really fair to say no CofE clergy rec...It's not really fair to say no CofE clergy receive more than three years training. Theology graduates do two more years at theol coll which makes five. A not insignificant number do further degrees after ordination.Alan Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15720666223287087150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49380774760966714992010-06-25T14:35:06.502+01:002010-06-25T14:35:06.502+01:00! You astonish me.
How on earth can a man learn a...! You astonish me.<br /><br />How on earth can a man learn all he ought for such a ministry in so short a time?Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-24608187803747602402010-06-25T14:29:45.531+01:002010-06-25T14:29:45.531+01:00Joshua, no CofE clergy receive more than three yea...Joshua, no CofE clergy receive more than three years' training. (And three years is only for those under 30 who haven't got a theology degree.)Jacob Hickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02435082163759225318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23714821759064793862010-06-25T14:08:03.817+01:002010-06-25T14:08:03.817+01:00I remember being very surprised to learn that the ...I remember being very surprised to learn that the local Anglican vicar - if only St Oswald's, just down my street, were joining the Ordinariates, not sinking into low-church oblivion under such well-meaning but uncatholic incumbents - had had only two years' training! It scandalized me.<br /><br />And the Anglican bishop of Tasmania now ordains local or country clergy, who are basically Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.com