tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post6523313278498763789..comments2024-03-28T20:30:48.788+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: "Brother-and-Sister"?? UPDATEDFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32995970182398828242019-11-20T23:03:04.367+00:002019-11-20T23:03:04.367+00:00Except probabilism says that of the law is in doub...Except probabilism says that of the law is in doubt, you can follow a probable opinion, and plenty of authorities on the matter DON’T believe in Dr Peter’s interpretation of the deacon question. If you asked the pope point blank, he’d settle it instantly. I note that Dr Peters has submitted no such dubia.Jelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01607822575954711599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-10540937535818735002017-01-02T15:19:51.467+00:002017-01-02T15:19:51.467+00:00Elisabeth F:
Thank you for the links.
It appears...Elisabeth F:<br /><br />Thank you for the links.<br /><br />It appears what you have cited here speaks to the issue of Anglican priests, but I do not see how it addresses married ordained NON-previously-Anglican {deacons and priests} specifically. So it appears the ex-Anglicans have options that are not extended to {most importantly} the vast number of ordained permanent deacons and of course Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32701324391021844012017-01-01T23:46:33.795+00:002017-01-01T23:46:33.795+00:00Valdemar, Dr Peters is wrong. The clergy de iure ...Valdemar, Dr Peters is wrong. The clergy de iure divino can marry - I Cor 9:5.<br />Albrecht von Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12996637489269911349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-80438283390065715112017-01-01T23:42:50.174+00:002017-01-01T23:42:50.174+00:00The warourtime and Valdemar -
As Someone Who Know...The warourtime and Valdemar -<br /><br />As Someone Who Knows From Personal Experience will certainly tell us, there is no concession that lets married priests who become a member in an Ordinariate continue marital relations with their spouse.<br />What a married priest swimming the Tiber may do is to petition the Holy See to have the canonical requirement lifted.<br />If a priest wishes to Elisabeth F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12789523780742101772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-25155439016047627582017-01-01T22:07:20.494+00:002017-01-01T22:07:20.494+00:00thewarourtime says: "A married clergy in An...thewarourtime says: "A married clergy in Anglicanism/Protestantism who comes to the Church and is called to the priesthood gets to keep his wife and they are allowed to continue to have marital relations."<br /><br />Please see Canon Lawyer Ed Peters on this issue. He was written that it is clear under canon law that ordained married deacons and priests are both bound by the law of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-73644839679918562882017-01-01T16:18:13.370+00:002017-01-01T16:18:13.370+00:00Regarding tghe so-called matthean exceptions in St...Regarding tghe so-called matthean exceptions in St. Matthew 5 &1 9, please see:<br /><br />http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/10/catholic-teaching-on-marriage-and.html<br /><br />"Two different explanations of the seeming exception have been given by Catholic exegetes. One older interpretation, given by Sts. Jerome and Augustine, holds that it gives adultery as a grounds not for Sean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16255413163546294154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-78917159197316041602017-01-01T09:55:42.439+00:002017-01-01T09:55:42.439+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-11765593605554061072017-01-01T03:59:47.935+00:002017-01-01T03:59:47.935+00:00That would probably nullify the marriage in the ch...That would probably nullify the marriage in the church too, since it is a fact about the person which if known would prevent the marriage... to simplify and perhaps muddle things. Matthew Rothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00958673318312786618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-86598251299027095762016-12-31T20:00:56.894+00:002016-12-31T20:00:56.894+00:00Re my previous comment, I was mistaken about which...Re my previous comment, I was mistaken about which proposition the Louvain theologians condemned as "falsam, temerariam, et perniciosam." It was, rather, a similar assertion which Gonet saw as the principle according to which Sancius made his judgment, namely, "Licitum est quaerere directe occasionem proximam peccandi, pro bono spirituali, aut temporali, nostro vel proximi." Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15728259859819037533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-26824124453021457572016-12-31T18:17:51.053+00:002016-12-31T18:17:51.053+00:00I hope you will understand this Rev. Fr. John Hunw...I hope you will understand this Rev. Fr. John Hunwicke [and perhaps come to the realization of what God is calling you in your life]. Celibacy is the law, the requirement for priests in the Latin Church. A married clergy in Anglicanism/Protestantism who comes to the Church and is called to the priesthood gets to keep his wife and they are allowed to continue to have marital relations. Father, thewarourtime.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978929245986924620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-28697242387565654262016-12-31T18:17:29.197+00:002016-12-31T18:17:29.197+00:00Living as brother and sister which I have for over... Living as brother and sister which I have for over 5yrs. my spouse "brother" and I have come to know a deeper love..temptation is not a problem. it's the people who think we can't live as bother and sister that is the problem. the sin of lust is not an issue and God Blesses us with an abundance of grace. If you truly live the faith and make the sacrifice for God , sex-- nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07450607396528034703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67380311352156241712016-12-31T17:52:14.191+00:002016-12-31T17:52:14.191+00:00Don't call him "Bergoglio". It is di...Don't call him "Bergoglio". It is disrespectul in the extreme, no matter what goofiness he has done. By doing so, you indicate that he is not really Pope, just some guy who illegitimately occupies the office of the Papacy. ffcfcfcfcfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17404285900890504912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-73618660086670190722016-12-31T17:39:12.987+00:002016-12-31T17:39:12.987+00:00Elisabeth,
That the Church is aware of this and m...Elisabeth,<br /><br />That the Church is aware of this and may have "accepted" it, does not justify a "brother and sister" relationship. It is not at all significant that a thousand years ago, this was known. Adultery, a thousand years ago, was adultery.<br /><br />The Church, then, has been in error since this "brother and sister" thing sprouted wings and was not Karl Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506039683289055856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-14968974360523052562016-12-31T17:20:32.199+00:002016-12-31T17:20:32.199+00:00Elisabeth,
Up front and honestly, I doubt that I ...Elisabeth,<br /><br />Up front and honestly, I doubt that I will change your opinion. I am certain that you will not change mine. <br /><br />The issues are both extremely simple yet painfully convoluted, simultaneously, due to<br />1. Spouses choices which are not congruent with their marital promises 2. Scandalously pour judgment and governance of the Catholic Church 3. Humans and free willKarl Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506039683289055856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-68130288845863226202016-12-31T16:44:37.775+00:002016-12-31T16:44:37.775+00:00Please forgive my re-posting this earlier comment ...Please forgive my re-posting this earlier comment of mine, Father, but I would really be grateful if someone might address it insofar as it is predicated on Canon 1095 and the conditions for granting a Declaration of Nullity based on 'mental incapacity', a judgement call more often than not as opposed to the independently verifiable factors such as consanguinity and affinity:<br /><br />Liam Ronanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01376666519733160167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30915931467491004562016-12-31T16:43:17.069+00:002016-12-31T16:43:17.069+00:00Liam,
This is not really an answer but my experie...Liam,<br /><br />This is not really an answer but my experience:<br /><br />"As we cannot know the Mind of God, we cannot be certain what "God has joined together", no? Will those aforementioned parties who have had their Declaration of Nullity (psychological immaturity, etc.) issued in error nonetheless have to answer to God for the sin of adultery, or does 'good faith' inKarl Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506039683289055856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-13112710687290700552016-12-31T15:50:02.616+00:002016-12-31T15:50:02.616+00:00I might add.
I wonder how many Midwives actually ...I might add.<br /><br />I wonder how many Midwives actually received the training embodied in P Pius' "allocution". It would seem that if any had, they were better catechized than many of our prelates {dare I say right to the top} today.... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-6098603287023764672016-12-31T15:22:48.796+00:002016-12-31T15:22:48.796+00:00Father Hunwicke, thank you for bringing this up.
...Father Hunwicke, thank you for bringing this up.<br /><br />This is the issue about which I was expressing my deepest concern in my comment on "Cardinal Burke's Latest (2)".<br /><br />I have utterly no idea WHERE this concept hailed from and neither does it seem to fit in any way with the spirit of Holy Scripture or....{drum roll, please}...COMMON SENSE, BUT...I must suggest that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-74431478579651824862016-12-31T14:25:22.719+00:002016-12-31T14:25:22.719+00:00I wrote "The contorted and extraordinary natu...I wrote "The contorted and extraordinary nature of this procedure makes abundantly clear that ..." This is a perfectly clear statement of how judge the matter and upon what grounds I do so. I object to the insinuations in the last comment.Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41165914067314497502016-12-31T05:15:19.683+00:002016-12-31T05:15:19.683+00:00It is not "a concession". That's you...It is not "a concession". That's your characterization and not the Church's.thewarourtime.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978929245986924620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90267820805998143652016-12-31T00:37:25.870+00:002016-12-31T00:37:25.870+00:00I'm not sure how one can square that the educa...I'm not sure how one can square that the education of children in the faith as the primary responsibility of parents (as canon law emphatically states) and the conjugal rights of spouses (as canon law also states) can coexist in this brother sister caveat. When I say conjugal, I don't mean the colloquial definition but the palpable reality of the continuous physical presence of persons Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-64706058622604057322016-12-30T23:12:02.714+00:002016-12-30T23:12:02.714+00:00Dear Karl,
already some 30 years ago, the unjusti...Dear Karl,<br /><br />already some 30 years ago, the unjustified annulment practice especially in the US has been an issue and the question of how to deal with such "annulments" even became an important reason for a major split within the Priestly Society of St. Pius X. mid of the 1980th (See f.i. the letter of the nine priests to Abp. Marcel Levebvre dated March 25, 1983). These nine Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-11948623610834143972016-12-30T22:58:26.461+00:002016-12-30T22:58:26.461+00:00My understanding is that a Decree of Nullity is no...My understanding is that a Decree of Nullity is not infallible. If I am incorrect I should be grateful for any correction. <br /><br />However, if I am correct in my understanding then there will almost certainly be parties who have had a Declaration of Nullity granted in respect of the first marriage when in fact the first marriage was valid in the Eyes of God. What then of adultery? <br /><br /Liam Ronanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01376666519733160167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20880062926561776092016-12-30T20:08:38.829+00:002016-12-30T20:08:38.829+00:00I have come across the discussion of the question ...I have come across the discussion of the question in Jean Baptiste Gonet's Clypeus Thomistarum, in the section on probabilism. He cites the opinion of John Sancius: Concubinarius non tenetur pellere domo concubinam, sed polliceri solum, se deinceps cum ea non peccaturum, quando ea relicta vitam transigeret tristius." He then agrees with the Doctors of Louvain that this opinion, "Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15728259859819037533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-81519883080845343132016-12-30T20:06:11.693+00:002016-12-30T20:06:11.693+00:00I recall reading about an article from the early 1...I recall reading about an article from the early 1960's in the German anti-Catholic rag "der Spiegel" that was mocking a priest who had a column in a Catholic magazine (I think the priest was from SVD or another major congregation of secular priests) for suggesting the brother-sister approach, I guess because it was too rigid.<br /><br />@Thomas Beyer: it might be true that not all Konstantinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13701303189143549671noreply@blogger.com