tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post598551033775429946..comments2024-03-29T09:39:50.604+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Vatican II Reforms: PsalterFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-34785490001437252502020-01-20T21:35:19.730+00:002020-01-20T21:35:19.730+00:00Today I picked up two volumes of a 1951 Breviary f...Today I picked up two volumes of a 1951 Breviary from a bookseller who sells books for charitable aims. Whilst the volumes themselves were in better condition than I expected, they did - as I expected - contain the 'Pian' rather than the Vulgate Psalter. Having compared the two translations, it is clear that the Vulgate is superior. Pian isn't too bad so long as ones sticks to Adrian F Sunmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15921061468069688919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-29403549781202572742012-03-23T16:20:47.023+00:002012-03-23T16:20:47.023+00:00Well, I am a 77-year old married layman. I have b...Well, I am a 77-year old married layman. I have been praying the office for 50 years at least. My first encounter with the psalter was the Versio Piana. Only after years of using it I found out there existed the venerable Gallican. In 1972 I was subcantor at the Cathedral of Lima, Peru and I chanted the office with the Canons, always the Piana. When I run into Gallican I was disilusioned. I voltapehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768764833919154568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-84041430856529784922010-08-30T15:39:04.057+01:002010-08-30T15:39:04.057+01:00Joshua, thanks.
I only know the New Vulgate from ...Joshua, thanks.<br /><br />I only know the New Vulgate from its use in the Novem Testamentum Graece et Latine. From the critical apparatus it appears that its New Testament varies only slightly from earlier versions of the Vulgate, that it is a minor revision rather than a new translation.<br /><br />The repetition of the phrase "magis quam custodes auroram" seems a good example of a rick allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07612435616018593956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-32655376794488502552010-08-30T07:24:13.507+01:002010-08-30T07:24:13.507+01:00Fascinating to read the litigurus discussing the p...Fascinating to read the litigurus discussing the problems of the pre-Vatican II reforms of which Evelyn Waugh also complained in a letter to one of the Mitfords.<br /><br />I found a British Pathé newsreel on the web from 1967 of Liverpool Cathedral's consecration attended by Cardinal Heenan. Parading around in a cappa magna (ironically?) for the purposes of what looked like a gruesome Sadie Vacantisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04823532366874114366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-11460931634888403182010-08-30T05:14:34.056+01:002010-08-30T05:14:34.056+01:00Actually, the Vatican Press 1961 edition of the Of...Actually, the Vatican Press 1961 edition of the Office (= the "'62 version") includes the Pian Psalter, which was still an option.<br /><br />You can't sing it. For private recitation, I actually don't mind it. I know that view is anathema among traditionalists, but I'm much more bothered by the illogic of having the first lesson of a gospel homily ask a question that nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17097976187067791789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-17328782193013664532010-08-30T03:55:00.917+01:002010-08-30T03:55:00.917+01:00On pp. 192-3 of Campbell's book, we pick up th...On pp. 192-3 of Campbell's book, we pick up the story of the NT canticles:<br /><br />Group 9 considered the matter again at its meeting in September 1966. Group 3 (distribution of psalms), which, with the assitance of Group 4 (biblical readings) and Group 8 (chants), was primarily responsible for the work on the proposed canticles, had offered three reasons for their introduction into Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00104652633000677197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-1603530900219497662010-08-30T03:46:09.797+01:002010-08-30T03:46:09.797+01:00On the NT canticles added to Vespers in Liturgia H...On the NT canticles added to Vespers in <i>Liturgia Horarum</i>, Stanislaus Campbell, OSB, has the following illuminating passage in his <i>From Breviary to Liturgy of the Hours</i>, pp. 188-9:<br /><br />At its meeting of September 22-26, 1965, Group 9 agreed to the insertion of a New Testament canticle in Vespers and examined ten texts proposed by Group 3 as such canticles. When the Group of Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00104652633000677197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-20656415615943194292010-08-30T02:08:11.181+01:002010-08-30T02:08:11.181+01:00I recall having a similar experience while attendi...I recall having a similar experience while attending Mass in English - I was in New Zealand last year on holiday, and while in Queenstown went to Mass. Well! The dratted Kiwis have some newfangled version of the Lord's Prayer that left me unable to join in at all - whereas when I attended Latin Mass in Christchurch, I could join in the responses perfectly. (Apparently I would have been Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-67867657593135628122010-08-30T02:04:30.097+01:002010-08-30T02:04:30.097+01:00I recall attending a funeral of a Dominican - bein...I recall attending a funeral of a Dominican - being at the graveside with a learnèd Tertiary, I suggested that we say the De Profundis for his soul. Alas! without realizing till we got halfway through, Anthony was praying the Neo-Vulgate and I the Vulgate, so once we got to "et propter legem tuam..." we got hopelessly snarled up and were unable to finish the prayer - much to the Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-86258442908806586602010-08-30T02:00:28.107+01:002010-08-30T02:00:28.107+01:00Herewith, the well-known Psalm 129 (130 according ...Herewith, the well-known Psalm 129 (130 according to the Hebrew), in the <a href="http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/Ps.html" rel="nofollow">Vulgate</a>, Pian version (copied out of a handy Vulgate Bible featuring for the Psalms <i>in altera columna novam versionem latinam Instituti Biblici a Pio XII pro usu liturgico approbatam, die 24 martii 1945</i>) and <a href="http://www.vatican.va/Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30668601444314203252010-08-30T00:27:42.889+01:002010-08-30T00:27:42.889+01:00Could you perhaps give us an example or two of the...Could you perhaps give us an example or two of the difference between the prior Latin and the new?<br /><br />I understand that the standard Vulgate never adopted Jerome's later translation of the psalter out of the Hebrew, and retained his translation of the Septuagint. Might that be the main difference, or it is something else?rick allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07612435616018593956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39809840563884153312010-08-29T23:24:12.779+01:002010-08-29T23:24:12.779+01:00Pope Pius the Twelf's revision of the Psalter ...Pope Pius the Twelf's revision of the Psalter by Cardinal Bea in a classicalísing Latin was not obligaotry, thank God. Though they published as many copies as possible of Rituale Romanum with the revised psalter. Pope John XXIII abolished the Pian Psalter already in 1960 which is why in the Breviarium ROmanum 1960 we have the old Vulgate Psalter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com