tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post5088580338294345015..comments2024-03-28T23:52:48.762+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Epicleses and ElevationsFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-31453098000589342902010-12-03T04:21:06.212+00:002010-12-03T04:21:06.212+00:00One can never make too many genuflections (in the ...One can never make too many genuflections (in the Western Rites) or metanias (in the Eastern Rites).Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49577574726918473692010-12-02T10:03:09.847+00:002010-12-02T10:03:09.847+00:00In the Byzantine Rites, there is a double adoratio...In the Byzantine Rites, there is a double adoration: 1) after each of the institution fomulae; 2) more profoundly after the words of the Epiclesis. As to when the consecration and transubstantiation takes place, there are 3 answers; the best, I believe, to be that the whole Anaphora (Canon) is what makes Christ present through the action of the Holy Spirit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-63953860705518154142010-12-02T03:51:06.399+00:002010-12-02T03:51:06.399+00:00P.S. Here is the alternate form of the concluding ...P.S. Here is the alternate form of the concluding formula above:<br /><br />Te præstánte, sancte Dómine, quia tu hæc ómnia nobis indígnis servis tuis valde bona creas, sanctíficas, vivíficas ac præstas nobis, ut sint benedícta a te Deo nostro in sæcula sæculórum.<br />R/. Amen.<br /><br />Sorry for the mix-up!Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-22513401644167825762010-12-02T03:49:17.802+00:002010-12-02T03:49:17.802+00:00As was mentioned some time ago on this blog, the S...As was mentioned some time ago on this blog, the Sarum Secret for the 3rd Sunday after Trinity is quite epicletic:<br /><br />Munera tibi quesumus domine oblata sanctificata: ut tui nobis unigeniti corpus et sanguis fiant ad medelam, qui tecum....<br /><br />Again, used before the Words of Institution, it appears proleptic; yet if this appeared, say, as the Post Pridie of a Mozarabic Rite Mass - Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-57279154393087520092010-12-01T23:41:54.923+00:002010-12-01T23:41:54.923+00:00The biggest mistake is to think that an epiclesis ...The biggest mistake is to think that an epiclesis must explicitly pray that the Holy Spirit effect the change in the elements. It amazes me that the counter-example of the Roman Canon, whose Quam oblationem, directly preceding the Words of Institution, is certainly epicletic, praying that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood, yet does not in so many words ask for the Holy Spirit to be Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-79441025970871478462010-12-01T21:40:22.434+00:002010-12-01T21:40:22.434+00:00Fortescue The Mass 1912 where he begins by discuss...Fortescue The Mass 1912 where he begins by discussing whether the signings of the Elements after the Consecrations are truly meant to bless.Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85513799849104075772010-12-01T21:29:00.407+00:002010-12-01T21:29:00.407+00:00Most Eucharistic Prayers (with the exception of th...Most Eucharistic Prayers (with the exception of the Roman Canon and Addai and Mari) contain a pre-consecratory epiclesis in which the Father is asked to send the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. Elevations in the traditional place would then seem correct. The anamnesis and post-consecratory epiclesis concentrate on our participation in the sacrifice Doodlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10476313122409864359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60122747636742455852010-12-01T21:00:46.663+00:002010-12-01T21:00:46.663+00:00This a helpful piece thank you Fr. I am in a part...This a helpful piece thank you Fr. I am in a part of the world in which the Anglican rites (there are several) all have an Epiclesis after the Institution Narrative. I have tried leaving elevation and genuflection until the doxology at the end and it just feels wrong. On the basis that manual actions serve to draw attention to, and punctuate, the words of the Eucharistic prayer, I have Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15597129831186232730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-16670804228797950272010-12-01T17:40:43.759+00:002010-12-01T17:40:43.759+00:00Thank you for this quotation. Could you please be ...Thank you for this quotation. Could you please be kind enough to give a citation? I have argued much the same thing about elevation to a 'liturgically minded' prelate who, nevertheless, failed to understand. Mind you he did not have the benefit of an Oxford education....Fr Anthony Howehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09670863792217469767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-24223548622531277492010-12-01T12:31:44.003+00:002010-12-01T12:31:44.003+00:00Interesting, I addressed this issue on my blog a f...Interesting, I addressed this issue on my blog a few days ago - I argued that the Elevation should come at the end of the Canon before the Pater Noster, the Canon being one uninterrupted Eucharistic Prayer, adding emphasis to the phrase ''panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie'' in the Lord's Prayer, and restoring the symbolism both of oblation and adoration in the act of Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-19803516599263249132010-12-01T11:06:26.287+00:002010-12-01T11:06:26.287+00:00From the Coptic Liturgy of St Basil:
"Maste...From the Coptic Liturgy of St Basil:<br /> <br />"Master Lord Jesus Christ, the Co-eternal, the Word of the unblemished Father, Who is of one essence with Him and the Holy Spirit, for You are the Living Bread which came down form heaven, and did aforetime make Yourself a Lamb without spot, for the life of the world; we ask and entreat Your goodness, O Lover of mankind; show Your face upon Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.com