tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post4539460429557009943..comments2024-03-29T01:24:45.251+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Married ClergyFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-30337964536453595912017-01-30T21:20:15.831+00:002017-01-30T21:20:15.831+00:00Mr Mercer,
1. It is some time since I practised l...Mr Mercer,<br /><br />1. It is some time since I practised law, but I can assure you that the best way to win a case is to have your opponent make it for you. This is what happens when he makes "admissions contrary to interest", which is what Clement has done in the passage I quoted. It is the daily experience of the law that a person does not make a statement contrary to their Albrecht von Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12996637489269911349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-80480877603152231892017-01-27T23:20:45.119+00:002017-01-27T23:20:45.119+00:00Br. Alexey Zawaski wrote:
"It has existed i...Br. Alexey Zawaski wrote:<br /><br /> "It has existed in all the Eastern Churches since the very beginning of Christianity-even those Eastern Churches that broke communion with each other at an early age all had and still have today a tradition of married clergy who continued to have children with their wives after ordination."<br /><br />Not in the case of the Perso-Mesopotamian ChurchWilliam Tighehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634494183165592707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-72502581239129955102017-01-27T22:16:28.905+00:002017-01-27T22:16:28.905+00:00Having now read Dr Vogel's book, I think it sh...Having now read Dr Vogel's book, I think it should be compulsory reading for anyone wishing to discuss this question, covering as it does the history, theology and canonical status of the question. It put flesh on the bones of my own thinking.Don Camillo SSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15181985690276317480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-13611283323087918362017-01-27T16:21:42.411+00:002017-01-27T16:21:42.411+00:00Mr. von Brandenburg:
Also, in his work, "The...Mr. von Brandenburg:<br /><br />Also, in his work, "The Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy," Cochini (especially after the citation I gave you above) very aptly explains your quote in the only way it can be taken -- and it is not your conclusion. Just the opposite.<br /><br />If you convinced an SSPX priest of your position with the book you mentioned, I would need to ask: is he Sean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16255413163546294154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23260153832229989502017-01-27T16:12:37.096+00:002017-01-27T16:12:37.096+00:00Mr. von Brandenburg:
You are rather selective in ...Mr. von Brandenburg:<br /><br />You are rather selective in your citations of Clement of Alexandria. In the same work you cite, he states that "a married cleric, having raised his children, had to live with his wife from the day of his ordination AS WITH A WOMAN-HELPER OR SISTER-WOMAN.Sean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16255413163546294154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-54379936372883762022017-01-27T06:13:00.818+00:002017-01-27T06:13:00.818+00:00Thank you for your kind words,Albrecht V.B. I was ...Thank you for your kind words,Albrecht V.B. I was , for many years the wife of a priest in the Church of England. Of course the position, in spite of Henry's occasional paranoia, was one of responsibility and priveledge. It may seem strange , especially in the present circumstances, to say that in The Anglo Catholic parish where my husband was rector before we left for America, it was the JoeTownsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18271850806358024674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-79964810526851655172017-01-25T16:54:31.176+00:002017-01-25T16:54:31.176+00:00In reply to Br., about who Our Lord called as Apos...In reply to Br., about who Our Lord called as Apostles... It was (and still remains, in places) the Jewish custom to have their young folk married as soon as decently possible, if they would not object. It would thus be very strange for Our Lord to have found many men willing to work hard and walk far, who were not judged by their neighbours fit to marry and were therefore unmarried. Moreover, Belfry Bathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514867101036143597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90816238777241018422017-01-25T08:45:11.133+00:002017-01-25T08:45:11.133+00:00I must read Vogel's book. Since both ordinatio...I must read Vogel's book. Since both ordination and matrimony are holy sacraments, why should one suppose that the graces of either might not reinforce, rather than hinder, the graces of the other? My experience over forty plus years has been that being a father has deepened my understanding of the Fatherhood of God, and being a husband deepened my understanding of how Christ loves his ChurchDon Camillo SSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15181985690276317480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-56980824218853061762017-01-24T21:17:38.605+00:002017-01-24T21:17:38.605+00:00Picking up the theme of Br Alexey's post above...Picking up the theme of Br Alexey's post above, not only was there the famous bishop Jon Areson in Iceland, but the married Scottish martyr-Cardinal David Beaton, murdered by heretical monsters in front of his own children in St Andrews Castle.Albrecht von Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12996637489269911349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-76105590514385865142017-01-24T12:09:01.468+00:002017-01-24T12:09:01.468+00:00I find the Savage's comment the most compellin...I find the Savage's comment the most compelling so far. Hear!Hear! Ohyez! Ohyez! Osmund Kilrule https://www.blogger.com/profile/07031929350172992367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55472125071384820702017-01-24T12:08:45.620+00:002017-01-24T12:08:45.620+00:00I couldn't agree more with "the Savage&qu...I couldn't agree more with "the Savage". Osmund Kilrule https://www.blogger.com/profile/07031929350172992367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-85956174763526243212017-01-24T12:06:07.803+00:002017-01-24T12:06:07.803+00:00I find the Savage's comment the most compellin...I find the Savage's comment the most compelling so far. Hear!Hear! Ohyez! Ohyez! Osmund Kilrule https://www.blogger.com/profile/07031929350172992367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-59449379006007029102017-01-23T22:06:14.854+00:002017-01-23T22:06:14.854+00:00My two pennies (or should I write pence ?) worth -...My two pennies (or should I write pence ?) worth -<br /><br />1. At the time of entering seminary, the marital status of the seminarian may be either single or married, but not divorced or engaged. That status may not change.<br />2. If married, the wife must be committed to being an integral and essential part of the priest's ministry, particularly in regards to helping model a Catholic Elisabeth F.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12789523780742101772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23985928564862078912017-01-23T21:37:08.149+00:002017-01-23T21:37:08.149+00:00Many people are very confused - and wrong - about ...Many people are very confused - and wrong - about the practices, ancient and mediaeval, in the Latin church with regard to clerical marriage. This confusion extends to Dr Ed Peters, and ivolves reading their own prejudices back into history.<br /><br />Clement of Alexandria, the earliest post-scriptural writer to deal with the topic of clerical marriage says quite clearly in Stromata 3, XII:<br Albrecht von Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12996637489269911349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-89369655189008962342017-01-23T20:12:24.437+00:002017-01-23T20:12:24.437+00:00I have offered some thoughts on the limits of papa...I have offered some thoughts on the limits of papal authority with respect to marriage and the clergy on my blog fieldofdreams2010.wordpress.com and would be interested in your reaction, Father.Don Camillo SSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15181985690276317480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-27159520506478403762017-01-23T20:04:16.895+00:002017-01-23T20:04:16.895+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60758183152263886602017-01-23T19:33:00.712+00:002017-01-23T19:33:00.712+00:00Each of the last two parishes (mainstream RC) in w...Each of the last two parishes (mainstream RC) in which I have lived has had at least two active members who were/are wives of Anglican clergy, there may be quite a lot of them. It would be interesting to hear their opinions. Incidentally was Henry VIII really unaware of the existence of Mrs Cranmer, it seems unlikely.E sapelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09886268559214926797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41482328903027304972017-01-23T16:22:01.565+00:002017-01-23T16:22:01.565+00:00The Savage mentions "half millenial" and...The Savage mentions "half millenial" and all that; but there is a very old tradition of distinguishing <i>long habit</i> and <i>tradition</i>. There's a long habit, in some places, of denying Christ's Divinity, but we don't call that <i>tradition</i>.<br /><br />I should like to know, therefore, how much the root of the Anglican Practise arises from <i>before</i> the schismBelfry Bathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514867101036143597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-75030584555304319032017-01-23T03:56:07.316+00:002017-01-23T03:56:07.316+00:00As a half millennial tradition in the Anglican Chu...As a half millennial tradition in the Anglican Church, and one which is clearly not incompatible with Catholic doctrine and practice, there should be a presumption in favour of keeping a married priesthood within the Ordinariates. Furthermore, at the level of lived experience, it seems undeniable that the role of a priest's wife, particularly in a parish setting, can be very enriching for the Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09639884350227862717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23533089407253544212017-01-23T03:40:39.594+00:002017-01-23T03:40:39.594+00:00I migrated to Our Lady of a Walsingham in Houston ...I migrated to Our Lady of a Walsingham in Houston from an SSPX chapel, and initially I was not favorably inclined to the idea of married Latin clergy, but I resolved to tolerate it at Walsingham. Then, little by little I came to know, and admire, both our founding pastor, a married priest, and his wife and children. Their family lived a life without any extras as the little Anglican Usage group Woodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08910654300435533408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-21874168495057301412017-01-22T23:44:37.156+00:002017-01-22T23:44:37.156+00:00Is there any sort of a sufficient living for clerg...Is there any sort of a sufficient living for clergyman and his family?Prayerfulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01561992635589480308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-77429786624358533982017-01-22T22:02:50.131+00:002017-01-22T22:02:50.131+00:00I might write a 'warts and all' book one d...I might write a 'warts and all' book one day , but for now,it seems, we clergy wives are to crated up and shipped out yet again. I am too weary to comment, and far from the hopeful days of the early Ordinariate, we now find ourselves as unloved by the establishment as ever. S.John Paul and The Venerable Benedict had a real appreciation of married clergy it would seem. Their personal JoeTownsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18271850806358024674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-54160557913776584012017-01-22T21:46:37.109+00:002017-01-22T21:46:37.109+00:00I don't have terribly strong opinions on the s...I don't have terribly strong opinions on the subject, but I agree with Dr. Ed Peters (http://www.canonlaw.info/a_deacons.htm) and the writers at Unam Sanctam Catholicam (http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/component/content/article/79-history/465-celibacy-in-the-early-church.html) that clerical continence must be maintained, whether marriage is permitted or not.Hrodgarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052168727776803292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-53353311258981542712017-01-22T21:14:50.445+00:002017-01-22T21:14:50.445+00:00This is a such a serious topic, that I offer the f...This is a such a serious topic, that I offer the following doggerel (which Rorate Caeli amazingly posted, despite their enthusiasm for the position of Fr Laurent Touze) in order to lighten the mood:<br /><br />I hate married priests!<br /><br />I disapprove of sex!<br /><br />As a spiritual director,<br /><br />I really love to vex<br /><br />young seminarians<br /><br />with ice-cold showers:<brAlbrecht von Brandenburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12996637489269911349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-39968130431727790582017-01-22T19:41:27.255+00:002017-01-22T19:41:27.255+00:00I've no qualms about a married clergy, either ...I've no qualms about a married clergy, either in the Ordinariate or more widely.<br />I do have a couple practical questions:<br /><br />1) How can we afford to pay a decent wage to a family man? (I'm not sure what celibate priests get in their pay packet, but kids are expensive.)<br />2) What do we do when they get divorced?Tony Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862727279147129707noreply@blogger.com