tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post3480276886831791218..comments2024-03-18T20:38:40.751+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Apostolicae curae and the ArmeniansFr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-58257724638377811062010-08-03T20:12:40.895+01:002010-08-03T20:12:40.895+01:00My understanding is that Leo is in effect saying &...My understanding is that Leo is in effect saying "For the sake of argument, let's assume the Anglican Matter is sufficient: in that case, what's wrong is ..."Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-2339436678452179012010-08-03T15:22:43.993+01:002010-08-03T15:22:43.993+01:00Point taken. But AC still states explicitly that t...Point taken. But AC still states explicitly that the issue of porrection was irrelevant, and that the problem was one of form.Gideon Ertnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572157722582694936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-65155941464080207302010-08-03T10:02:32.574+01:002010-08-03T10:02:32.574+01:00Actually, the Bull rather shiftily says "quat...Actually, the Bull rather shiftily says "quatenus hoc loco se dat considerandam", pecisely, Gideon, because theologians were NOT agreed. Theologians then took to arguing about whether this did or did not solve the question, and it wasn't until 1947 that Pius XII decided the matter.Fr John Hunwickehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-79546275275033262632010-08-02T23:57:53.800+01:002010-08-02T23:57:53.800+01:00Often simple, and local,traditions take upon them ...Often simple, and local,traditions take upon them the sense of essentials. Many of us can still remember that during the Words of Consecration, it was absolutely necessary whilst saying the words over the elements to say them, and breath, upon the elements at the same time. Hence the rubric to lower oneself upon the wrists and to say the words directly over the Host and the same rubric to say theDalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06431501238259860462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-37022126285077677632010-08-02T18:58:51.710+01:002010-08-02T18:58:51.710+01:00Even if it was once held that porrection was the m...Even if it was once held that porrection was the matter of the Sacrament, this opinion was certainly not held in the time of Leo XIII. AC itself states (art. 24) that it is imposition of hands that is the matter.<br /><br />The whole point of AC is that it is the <i>form</i>, not the matter, that was defective in the Edwardine rite.<br /><br />And the Pontiff goes on to say,<br /><br /><i>"Gideon Ertnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572157722582694936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-51366650338474829102010-08-02T16:51:45.036+01:002010-08-02T16:51:45.036+01:00This is a very interesting point. Pius XII's c...This is a very interesting point. Pius XII's clarification cites an important example: <br />"All agree that the Sacraments of the New Law, as sensible signs which produce invisible grace, must both signify the grace which they produce and produce the grace which they signify. Now the effects which must be produced and hence also signified by Sacred Ordination to the Diaconate, the Mgr Andrew Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12821521091262543139noreply@blogger.com