tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post313885377414271106..comments2024-03-28T14:19:53.973+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: culture changes (1)Fr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55037768129076566892011-01-09T04:11:28.789+00:002011-01-09T04:11:28.789+00:00Jesse
Those are very good guidelines but the fact...Jesse<br /><br />Those are very good guidelines but the fact is that often the people require something different or at least something additional. I refer specifically to a lack of catechesis that is to be found among lay Catholics and Anglicans. <br /><br />Much of this is because the modern homiletic style with all it's potential advantages discourages themes which are not directly relatedUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07352598115559204014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-41235543129996975932011-01-08T23:54:35.285+00:002011-01-08T23:54:35.285+00:00In Lithuania a vernacular hymn, always the same &#...In Lithuania a vernacular hymn, always the same ''Pulkim ant keliu'' (Let us fall upon our knees) was sung BEFORE the parish High Mass began. And after Mass had ended, a vernacular hymn in honour of our Lady was sung. But the Mass itself was sung in Latin. It is and should remain forbidden to sing vernacular songs during the Solemn Mass or Missa cantata. For the Mass has its own Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-42937767161733485372011-01-08T22:18:56.839+00:002011-01-08T22:18:56.839+00:00Frankly, if a priest can't get his point over...Frankly, if a priest can't get his point over in 5 minutes then he's either self-indulgent or poorly trained. Anything longer than that is simply a distraction from the liturgy.<br /><br />And yes, I know everyone can point to wonderful exceptions - Newman, for example. But they're just that: exceptions, and they make bad rules.IanWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14802289720095323373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90858191435073164922011-01-08T21:09:10.650+00:002011-01-08T21:09:10.650+00:00On the subject of preaching (is this too much of a...On the subject of preaching (is this too much of a deviation from the blog subject?), I recently completed a seminary course on "Homiletics" in which we were taught the principles of the "liturgical homily", which are boiled down to the following four criteria:<br /><br />1. It must draw on one or more of the pericopes read during the Liturgy of the Word (and not just a Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00104652633000677197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-36261302957076508522011-01-08T20:37:11.709+00:002011-01-08T20:37:11.709+00:00Excellent, excellent points all.
Regarding preach...Excellent, excellent points all.<br /><br />Regarding preaching, I think of the tale of Fr Faber, preaching a sermon on sin and repentance, crying out in the pulpit, "My dear Irish children, have mercy on your own souls!" and all the congregation falling to their knees, sobbing over their sins. If anyone in a "liturgical" church atempted that sort of thing nowadays, I think Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-60439610925325803422011-01-08T18:59:49.197+00:002011-01-08T18:59:49.197+00:00The art of preaching does seem to be dying (I'...The art of preaching does seem to be dying (I'm not talking here about game-show host nonsense).<br /><br />The style has changed. Younger Anglo-Catholic clergy often preach very sound, well-argued sermons, that hold the attention, etc., yet somehow they are more like lectures than the sermons of the elder generation.<br /><br />I find it hard, however, to identify precisely where the Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49892849075018299742011-01-08T18:40:40.615+00:002011-01-08T18:40:40.615+00:00I'm sure you're right. However, let's ...I'm sure you're right. However, let's not underestimate the power of the kind of preaching that is more interactive than the "lecture style". In fact the juxtaposition of it with the dignity and grandeur of old High Mass was a feature of the "ritualists" both here and in overseas missionary dioceses. When the liturgy itself is obviously loving homage to the Lord (Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-49969637842115568172011-01-08T18:14:33.886+00:002011-01-08T18:14:33.886+00:00PinV,
In the U.S. what I described was very commo...PinV,<br /><br />In the U.S. what I described was very common (by indult). Even in parishes that did have a High Mass or a Missa Cantata, that would be one of the several on a Sunday; many Catholics would fulfill their obligation at one of these other (Low) Masses. [I believe Poland, and perhaps Lithuania, also had an indult for the Low Mass with vernacular hymns, but I could be mistaken.]Steve Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021781365974293126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-23149953750541501462011-01-08T15:58:22.389+00:002011-01-08T15:58:22.389+00:00The changes (not specifiically authorized by the c...The changes (not specifiically authorized by the council) in the arrangement of furniture in the sanctuary were sudden and irrevocable. I wasn't around then, but were congregations warned that "next week, folks, everything that's up will be down"? And are people so dim that it takes only forty years for them to lose touch with centuries worth of tradition? I'm of the opinionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-86707247179667870072011-01-08T15:36:46.501+00:002011-01-08T15:36:46.501+00:00You are absolutely on the money, mon Père. That is...You are absolutely on the money, mon Père. That is exactly the problem. Slow re-culturation is my solution, but it's a very long game.<br />Steve—in England and Wales, at least, and, I suspect in most of the world outside Germany, hymns (other than liturgical sequences) were forbidden at Mass until 1966. The normal diet of a parish was a Missa Cantata where the congregation sang Mass 8 (Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-89546177950105368802011-01-08T14:22:44.009+00:002011-01-08T14:22:44.009+00:00In the church with which i am for the past near fi...In the church with which i am for the past near five years involved, the traditional Latin Mass re-introduced in 2006. The Mass had before then been celebrated in a manner which went far below and beyond the worst of the Novus Ordo. Not suprisingly, most of the parishioners accepted the Old Mass thankfully, and many more now come from far and wide to Sunday High Mass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-29603778319099433542011-01-08T14:06:47.852+00:002011-01-08T14:06:47.852+00:00Very true Father and a challenge going forward. Bu...Very true Father and a challenge going forward. But it has taken 40+ years to get to this point, so the reorientation – in more ways than one - will take some time also!GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-45628101816169114852011-01-08T13:44:05.172+00:002011-01-08T13:44:05.172+00:00Unfortunately, in the wider Latin Church, "tr...Unfortunately, in the wider Latin Church, "traditional" worship was an atrophied version of the full worship that was always the Christian ideal: the High Mass, with a full roster of clergy, choir and laity who all performed their own distinct liturgies as part of the worship offered (the true "Spirit of Vatican II", as anyone with eyes can discern by reading <i>Sacrosanctum Steve Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021781365974293126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-69458437382699473202011-01-08T10:57:16.898+00:002011-01-08T10:57:16.898+00:00All too true, alas, and a real problem, tho' s...All too true, alas, and a real problem, tho' some of us with moderately long memories react with, "Phew! At last - normal worship again." This is especially so when we have had to suppress our "preferences" (they are of course far more than that), having for so long been stigmatised as disobedient and "unCatholic" for rejecting the "Spirit of Vatican II"Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.com