tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post2195862463815346734..comments2024-03-28T14:19:53.973+00:00Comments on Fr Hunwicke's Mutual Enrichment: Diaconia in the Tradition of the Roman Church (4)Fr John Hunwickehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17766211573399409633noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-90839621516885710602020-01-20T14:04:46.530+00:002020-01-20T14:04:46.530+00:00The liturgical argument for the essentially-cultic...The liturgical argument for the essentially-cultic orientation of the deacon is very strong. Strong, too, is the scriptural point that the <i>diakonoi</i> of Acts 6 are related only in "liturgical" roles (preaching and baptizing). <br /><br />But one element that I find interesting is the evidence from 3rd-century Rome that the Roman Church employed deacons in roles of material service Father Stephen Schumacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06120791789269231093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-56192189419611547912020-01-14T02:18:24.461+00:002020-01-14T02:18:24.461+00:00How should one address a deacon, "permanent&q...How should one address a deacon, "permanent" (that is, <i>cæteris paribus, diaconus in æternum</i>) or "transitional" (and so to be ordained a priest sooner or later)?<br /><br />Of course, one calls a priest "Father", plus his surname, if he is a secular priest, or plus his name in religion, if he is a member of a religious order or congregation. (I doubt that Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17387698013828199070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-5203107605190047232020-01-13T21:14:51.025+00:002020-01-13T21:14:51.025+00:00We have a permanent deacon known officially as ...We have a permanent deacon known officially as 'Deacon John.' The parish priest, however, is not called 'Priest Timothy'. These deacons are ordained clergymen in the Catholic Church, and should be referred to as 'The Reverend Mr John Smith', or whatever. That's what the Anglicans do. Permanent Deacons should not be addressed as though they were backwoods itinerant Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04264379572686048595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-11174901424927848032020-01-12T10:48:21.409+00:002020-01-12T10:48:21.409+00:00The Eastern church requirement is that the priest ...The Eastern church requirement is that the priest be able to observe perpetual continence as a bishop, able to say Mass every day without being unfair to the wife by imposing the same condition on her, making her live elsewhere than in his house, etc.<br /><br />So normally they pick a monk and avoid the problem.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-38810683142379661112017-05-12T22:04:42.473+01:002017-05-12T22:04:42.473+01:00Tom Broughton said: "I believe in the Eastern...Tom Broughton said: "I believe in the Eastern churches, both uniate and otherwise, that a priest who marries before ordination is thereby barred from being raised to the episcopate."<br />In the Orthodox Church a widowed priest is often advanced to the Episcopate. Only qualification marriage-wise is that he not have a current wife.<br />Rdr. James MorganAuriel Ragmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395216240172741261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-76021994221999659292017-05-12T21:17:55.774+01:002017-05-12T21:17:55.774+01:00Frederick Bauerschmidt, the other confusion the te...Frederick Bauerschmidt, the other confusion the term engenders is whether transitional deacons cease to be deacons once they are ordained as priests. Surely every bishop and priest is also a deacon and, therefore, how can they not be said to be "permanent deacons" too? It is not like they have their ordination to the diaconate scrubbed out of them when they advance in Holy Orders. <brDeacon Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549825303646357455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-36515662199768445102017-05-10T21:18:31.338+01:002017-05-10T21:18:31.338+01:00I know one man who, after retirement, was ordained...I know one man who, after retirement, was ordained to the 'permanent' diaconate. And then when his wife died shortly afterwards, the Archbishop was persuaded to 'exceptionally' allow him to proceed to the priesthood. I understand that there was a back history which may have influenced the decision, that he had dropped out of seminary as a teenager when his father died and as the E sapelionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09886268559214926797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-55137351369013201142017-05-10T20:23:03.439+01:002017-05-10T20:23:03.439+01:00I wish we'd drop the phrase "permanent de...I wish we'd drop the phrase "permanent deacon" entirely. It only engenders confusion as to whether "permanent deacons" are real deacons. Frederick (Fritz) Bauerschmidthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01491804250797733456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-8462833131555559792016-03-10T23:51:15.874+00:002016-03-10T23:51:15.874+00:00John R,
I know you've commented on my blog fr...John R,<br /><br />I know you've commented on my blog from time to time, but I didn't realize until now that it was you who was installed as an acolyte recently! Congratulations. I've been trying to find a bishop to install me as lector and acolyte for five or more years. It's practically become a ritual to write a new letter to a bishop about it whenever I move to a new diocese. The Modern Medievalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238571174836044412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-71455388958790039712016-03-10T07:54:30.654+00:002016-03-10T07:54:30.654+00:00The International Liturgical Commission in its doc...The International Liturgical Commission in its document on the diaconate sided with the view that the seven in Acts were not deacons, or perhaps this has already been mentioned. Fergushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059815283839862056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-87315899363288337972016-03-10T02:40:27.568+00:002016-03-10T02:40:27.568+00:00Fr. Hunwicke, I have been following these posts on...Fr. Hunwicke, I have been following these posts on the diaconate with great interest. Three weeks ago, my local Ordinary, at my pastor's request, installed me as an Acolyte - in Latin according to the modern installation ceremony - but here's the twist, this happened in the context of a Traditional Mass exclusive parish of which I am part. I can (and now have) function as a "straw&Joanneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00496552906164909711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-21816294552989019202016-03-09T20:01:44.564+00:002016-03-09T20:01:44.564+00:00I believe in the Eastern churches, both uniate and...I believe in the Eastern churches, both uniate and otherwise, that a priest who marries before ordination is thereby barred from being raised to the episcopate. Is this not the same "disorder". I think the only reason that a so-called "permanent" deacon may not be ordained to the priesthood is that he is married. Is he so barred if he is celibate or indeed becomes widowed? If Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8940364093450837549.post-6794716862048706422016-03-09T14:19:12.159+00:002016-03-09T14:19:12.159+00:00Fr. Hunwicke,
Your contention regarding the insti...Fr. Hunwicke,<br /><br />Your contention regarding the institution of the permanent deaconate as a disorder is an interesting viewpoint: it raises the simple question of WHY. It would seem--and this is solely my conjecture--that they are permanent deacons because, generally speaking, either the Vatican or their bishop/ordinary does not deem them worthy to advance to the priesthood. It would Tom Broughtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740316569743632258noreply@blogger.com